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  1. #1

    12th Dynasty Ancient Egyptian Mummies Analysis

    Has anyone seen this study yet? I haven't seen any threads on it.

    "We study the kinship of two high-status Egyptians from the 12th Dynasty.. Ancient DNA was extracted from the teeth of the two mummies.. Sequences were obtained after hybridization capture of mtDNA and Y chromosome DNA.. Both mummies belong to mt haplotype M1a1, suggesting a maternal relationship.... Y DNA sequences showed variations, indicating that the mummies had different fathers..The SNP identities were consistent with mtDNA haplogroup M1a1 with 88.05–91.27% degree of confidence, thus confirming the African origins of the two individuals."
    --Drosoua et al. 2018. The kinship of two 12th Dynasty mummies revealed by ancient DNA sequencing. Jrnl of Ar Sci, v17. Feb 2018, 793-797

    https://www.research.manchester.ac.u...4)/export.html

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    I'm no expert in haplogroups, but that doesn't seem surprising to me given that M1a1 is common to both the Near East and East Africa. Have the origins and dispersal of M1a1 actually been determined, though? There's been a lot of discussion over Asian vs. African origins. González et al., for instance, support an Asian origin, with "backflow" into Africa https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1945034/.
    Last edited by passenger; 05-14-2020 at 08:07 PM.

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    M1a is clearly an indigenous NE African haplogroup which is why it has high frequencies in both the Horn (descendants of migrants from the North) and North Africa. It is not surprising that both of these mummies carry M1a
    Drobbah_scaled
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    M1a is clearly an indigenous NE African haplogroup which is why it has high frequencies in both the Horn (descendants of migrants from the North) and North Africa. It is not surprising that both of these mummies carry M1a
    Thanks, but do you have sources that you recommend on this?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Thanks, but do you have sources that you recommend on this?
    “Conceptually what genetic markers are considered to be “African” or “Asian” .. For example, the E1b1b1 (M35/78) lineage found in one Abusir el-Meleq sample is found not only in northern Africa, but is also well represented in eastern Africa7 and perhaps was taken to Europe across the Mediterranean before the Holocene (Trombetta, personal communication). E lineages are found in high frequency (>70%) among living Egyptians in Adaima9. The authors define all mitochondrial M1 haplogroups as “Asian” which is problematic. M1 has been postulated to have emerged in Africa10, and there is no convincing evidence supporting an M1 ancestor in Asia: many M1 daughter haplogroups (M1a) are clearly African in origin and history10. The M1a1, M1a2a, M1a1i, M1a1e variants found in the Abusir el-Meleq samples1 predate Islam and are abundant in SSA groups10, particularly in East Africa.”

    FROM: -Gourdine JP, Keita SOY, Gourdine JL, Anselin A, 2018. Ancient Egyptian Genomes from northern Egypt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    “Conceptually what genetic markers are considered to be “African” or “Asian” .. For example, the E1b1b1 (M35/78) lineage found in one Abusir el-Meleq sample is found not only in northern Africa, but is also well represented in eastern Africa7 and perhaps was taken to Europe across the Mediterranean before the Holocene (Trombetta, personal communication). E lineages are found in high frequency (>70%) among living Egyptians in Adaima9. The authors define all mitochondrial M1 haplogroups as “Asian” which is problematic. M1 has been postulated to have emerged in Africa10, and there is no convincing evidence supporting an M1 ancestor in Asia: many M1 daughter haplogroups (M1a) are clearly African in origin and history10. The M1a1, M1a2a, M1a1i, M1a1e variants found in the Abusir el-Meleq samples1 predate Islam and are abundant in SSA groups10, particularly in East Africa.”

    FROM: -Gourdine JP, Keita SOY, Gourdine JL, Anselin A, 2018. Ancient Egyptian Genomes from northern Egypt
    Yeah, it seems that reference is being used a lot by people pushing the Black Egyptian hypothesis, so I'd be a little suspicious. M1a may have originated in (Northeast) Africa, but that doesn't mean that M1 in general did, and from what I've seen there is plenty of legitimate scientific debate over this, so saying there is "no convincing evidence" sounds like BS.

    I'm wondering what the point of this discussion is anyway. So what if M1a originated in Northeast Africa? The Ancient Egyptians were a Northeast African people, albeit with influences gathered from other regions over time, but this does not imply a close genetic relationship to African peoples outside of the North and Northeast.

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  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Thanks, but do you have sources that you recommend on this?
    According to familytreedna the mtdna M is an Eurasian hp. Your can read here their arguments why they suggest an Eurasian origin of the mtdna M.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm no expert in haplogroups, but that doesn't seem surprising to me given that M1a1 is common to both the Near East and East Africa. Have the origins and dispersal of M1a1 actually been determined, though? There's been a lot of discussion over Asian vs. African origins. González et al., for instance, support an Asian origin, with "backflow" into Africa https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1945034/.
    M1 has been postulated to have emerged in Africa, and there is no convincing evidence supporting an M1 ancestor in Asia: many M1 daughter haplogroups (M1a) are clearly African in origin and history: https://osf.io/ecwf3/

    It sources this study:
    https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.co...71-2148-12-234


    Furthermore the mummies carrying M1 is consistent with studies on Upper Egyptian population. They say that the existence of M1 in the Egyptian population traces it's ancestry from Eastern Africa (Somalia/Ethiopia) who have high frequencies of M1 and carry similar L1 and L2 macrohaplogroups of frequency (20.6%)
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ion_from_Egypt

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  12. #9
    Here's another implication of M1 being African;

    "The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population." (Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.Ann Hum Genet. 68(Pt 1):23-39.)

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