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Thread: 12th Dynasty Ancient Egyptian Mummies Analysis

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramond View Post
    That these early ancient Egyptians (12th dynasty) do in fact have some "Sub Saharan African" ancestry based on this analysis. Upon reading this thread, and this highlighted exert;

    "By identifying the affiliation of the haplogroups and their comparison with the cumulative data from the literature (Supplementary Table 1), we can discuss each
    haplogroup to verify hypotheses on the X-Group origins. We found an influx of subSaharan African ancestry after the Meroitic Period, which corroborates the findings of Schuenemann et al. (2017)"

    it appears that another assumption has been made that the "Sub Saharan" element was not present in ancient Northeast African civilizations like Egypt and Nubia until much later (the "slave trade" was noted as the explanation). From a geographic (not social-political euphemisms) perspective this mtdna which came from Sub Saharan East Africa found in early dynastic Egyptians completely shatters those proclamations. Those are "sensationalist" and most importantly baseless claims based on the research that I have seen.

    That's great, because there are entire forums where people do this. It's complete nonsense, and it blows up in their faces every single time that they try to present those types of arguments.

    I'm not sure what going on on "Afrocentric" forums and what not. Now if the Egyptians were "Black" or "White" that is a "debate" that goes far past the narrow scope of information that genetics gives us. I'm not sure what other people argue or how they do it, but this thread was meant to bring attention to the maternal lineages found in two 12th dynasty Egyptian brothers.
    Thanks for the clarification. I'm still not sure how M1a is supposed to prove a flow from Subsaharan East Africa into Egypt, but I'll leave it for others to discuss.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. I'm still not sure how M1a is supposed to prove a flow from Subsaharan East Africa into Egypt, but I'll leave it for others to discuss.
    Meant to say M1a1, which is found in abundance in Sub-Saharan Africa.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Thanks, but do you have sources that you recommend on this?
    According to familytreedna the mtdna M is an Eurasian hp. Your can read here their arguments why they suggest an Eurasian origin of the mtdna M.

  4. #14
    Here's another implication of M1 being African;

    "The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population." (Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.Ann Hum Genet. 68(Pt 1):23-39.)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm no expert in haplogroups, but that doesn't seem surprising to me given that M1a1 is common to both the Near East and East Africa. Have the origins and dispersal of M1a1 actually been determined, though? There's been a lot of discussion over Asian vs. African origins. González et al., for instance, support an Asian origin, with "backflow" into Africa
    M1 has been postulated to have emerged in Africa, and there is no convincing evidence supporting an M1 ancestor in Asia: many M1 daughter haplogroups (M1a) are clearly African in origin and history:

    It sources this study:

    Furthermore the mummies carrying M1 is consistent with studies on Upper Egyptian population. They say that the existence of M1 in the Egyptian population traces it's ancestry from Eastern Africa (Somalia/Ethiopia) who have high frequencies of M1 and carry similar L1 and L2 macrohaplogroups of frequency (20.6%)

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Mirix For This Useful Post:

     Brandon S. Pilcher (09-20-2020)

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