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Thread: Who's More Paleo-Balkan, Albanians or Greeks?

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    Who's More Paleo-Balkan, Albanians or Greeks?

    Albanians are apparently more northern shifting than Greeks, what does this tell us when comparing paleo-balkanic components in albanians, greeks? Who's more paleo-balkan?
    Last edited by gjenetiks; 05-16-2020 at 12:09 AM.

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    There are not big diffrences between Albanians and Mainland Greeks.They are pretty much the same on autosomal level and on yDNA also they have some similarities.Thought, Tosks(south albanians) are less northern shifted compared to (Gheg) populations.Albanians are also less afected from West Asian and Levantine components making them more 'European' genetically.This is what i can say from the samples and gedmatches that i have seen so far from both ethnic groups.
    Last edited by Johnny ola; 05-16-2020 at 12:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    There are not big diffrences between Albanians and Mainland Greeks.They are pretty much the same on autosomal level and on yDNA also they have some similarities.Thought, Tosks(south albanians) are less northern shifted compared to (Gheg) populations.Albanians are also less afected from West Asian and Levantine components making them more 'European' genetically.This is what i can say from the samples and gedmatches that i have seen so far from both ethnic groups.
    I wonder how Montenegro Albanians like myself compare to mainland Greeks. I often think we MNE Albos are the Ghegs that look the most similar to Greeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjenetiks View Post
    I wonder how Montenegro Albanians like myself compare to mainland Greeks. I often think we are the Ghegs that look the most similar to Greeks.
    I think its exactly the opposite if you want my opinion as a Greek my self.South Albanians(Tosks) are much closer to Greeks in general.. both genetically and also when it comes to looks(if you mean this btw).Tosks are a more south european group IMO while Ghegs fit better to the balkan spectrum.This is just my exp with Albanians growing up with them...I might be wrong!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    I think its exactly the opposite if you want my opinion as a Greek my self.South Albanians(Tosks) are much closer to Greeks in general.. both genetically and also when it comes to looks(if you mean this btw).Tosks are a more south european group IMO while Ghegs fit better to the balkan spectrum.This is just my exp with Albanians growing up with them...I might be wrong!!!
    Tosks are probably closer to Greeks genetically and phenotypically, but I think MNE Albanians are the Ghegs that look closest to Greeks out of all the Ghegs.

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    What do you mean by Paleo-Balkan? Neolithic? Bronze Age? Later?

    I would agree that Greeks, especially Greek islanders are less "Balkan" because we have more Levantine/West Asian admixture. I haven't commented on the big GEDmatch Slavic Macedonian/Albanian thread, but those samples are very similar to mainland Greeks. The overall average seems more west and north shifted, but overall all three groups have significant overlapping areas on that PCA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjenetiks View Post
    Tosks are probably closer to Greeks genetically and phenotypically, but I think MNE Albanians are the Ghegs that look closest to Greeks out of all the Ghegs.
    From what I have seen there isn't any major difference between the Albanians of Montenegro and the Albanians of North Albania when it comes to phenotype, I also think that the physical differences between Gegs and Tosks is a little exaggerated. For the most part, Albanians share common features. Though if I had to guess, I'd assume that Southern Gegs from regions of Central Albania should look closer to Greeks. But as I stated previously, I do not think there are major or distinguishable differences between regions.

    As for which population is more Paleo-Balkan, Albanians as a whole are really close to mainland Greeks so both groups should be fairly similar in that aspect. However, as has been stated by others, Greek islanders tend to have extra Levantine and West Asian admixture in comparison to both Albanians and mainland Greeks.
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    There isn't really much difference among Albanians, but I think you can see differences with tribal albos compared to the broad albo population. It's as if you can see the tribe just through phenotype, crazy shit lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    From what I have seen there isn't any major difference between the Albanians of Montenegro and the Albanians of North Albania when it comes to phenotype, I also think that the physical differences between Gegs and Tosks is a little exaggerated. For the most part, Albanians share common features. Though if I had to guess, I'd assume that Southern Gegs from regions of Central Albania should look closer to Greeks. But as I stated previously, I do not think there are major or distinguishable differences between regions.

    As for which population is more Paleo-Balkan, Albanians as a whole are really close to mainland Greeks so both groups should be fairly similar in that aspect. However, as has been stated by others, Greek islanders tend to have extra Levantine and West Asian admixture in comparison to both Albanians and mainland Greeks.
    There isn't really much difference among Albanians, but I think you can see differences with tribal albos compared to the broad albo population. It's as if you can see the tribe just through phenotype, crazy shit lol

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    Depends on how you frame the question. In general, Albanians and Greeks cluster much closer with each other than with other Balkan populations - but there is some variation there from region to region. Also, I think that most of the similarities are of a much more recent origin than ancient times.

    It's important to notice that not all northern Albanians are Gegs and not all southern Albanians are Tosks. Gegs and Tosks strictly speaking live in two areas in the north and south respectively.

    So, I focus on researching Albanian tribes. Until now, I've focused on northern ones, but now I am slowly moving to the more unknown southern tribes. Mainland Greece experienced a large scale migration of southern Albanians mostly in the Middle Ages so that explains part of the similarities - but these southern Albanians weren't all Tosks. The Lalė are the "native" tribe of the Myzeqe region of Albania. They migrated en masse in the Patras, Elis, Arkadia regions of Greece in the Middle Ages. It would be interesting if some Greek users could give us some information about the presence of Lalas/Lales/Laliotes in the Peloponnese. I could only find - in bibliography in English - that a part of this community had become the Muslim Laliotes tribe in the 18th century.

    Also, some of the communities that migrated in Greece in that era were from northern tribes. A migrational route that amazes me to this day is that of the northern Kryethi. A branch of them migrated to Cyprus and from there a branch migrated to Poland. The result here is that in Cyprus there's the Groutas surname and in Poland there's a Crutta family.

    Another interesting one is that of the tribe of Kėmbėthekra of south-eastern Albania. This community was invited to Greece by the Venetians and settled in Acarnania, then Elis and a part finally went to...Ithaca and Cefalonia.


    I also suspect that with most islanders Albanians wouldn't cluster that closely and they definitely wouldn't cluster together with Pontic Greeks.
    Last edited by Bruzmi; 05-16-2020 at 01:59 AM.

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