Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9171819
Results 181 to 186 of 186

Thread: Early Bronze Age Mokrin necropolis in northern Serbia - preprint

  1. #181
    Registered Users
    Posts
    108
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    What this really shows to me is that somewhat more to the North of Mokrin even more "Gaulish-like" people could have lived and those would be nearly unrecognisable in the Iron Age mix of France if there was a moderate influx of Proto-Celtic from a more Central European position. Even more so if they just changed existing networks, rather than replacing them completely, what they obviously didn't do. This would be just noticeable as a modest shift and even uniparentals would be not that different overall, just some new ones introduced.
    The BA-IA change in Iberia is more obvious, in MLBA-IA/Roman England less so (though there does seem to be a shift towards the continent that likely didn't come purely from local farmers like it did during the Beaker period but probably new people) and in BA-IA France very very tentative with the current samples we have. But as you said, that might very well be because any new population coming in from west-central Europe or thereabouts would be hardest to distinguish in makeup to the French, then the English then the Iberian individuals overall. In that case, paradoxically the greatest turnover would appear as the smallest.

    If you average the (ML)BA and IA groups in those three locations, they point towards Lech, Singen and Swiss BA like populations (generally populations with similar levels of steppe but lower overall WHG ancestry and perhaps greater "Baltic" shift, showing a more eastern location) but all that is obviously very tentative and taken with mountains of salt because especially the central European and French groups we have still differ a lot within themselves and are very similar to each other and the IA dataset from further east is even more lacking; even if that scenario would conform to the communis opinio about the relative origins of proto-Celtic.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DFSTFD For This Useful Post:

     Andour (02-10-2021),  Riverman (02-10-2021)

  3. #182
    Registered Users
    Posts
    367
    Sex
    Location
    Auvergne, France
    Ethnicity
    "Arvern"
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2-DF103-FT21550
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bm

    European Union France
    @DFSTFD @Riverman

    Thanks for the feedback, both of you. You seem to have read my mind. I have been musing for some time over possible population movements from the Central European Urnfields heartland down the Rhone into central and southern France some time after 1200 BC. That's about the time cremation appeared along the Mediterranean coasts of France and north-east Spain. It looks like Europe as a whole went on the rampage at that period. That's the time of the Tollense battle, the Sea Peoples, and the Trojan war. My hunch (based on some archeology papers I came across) is that climate change triggered it off.

    Problem is, genetics hasn't helped me much along those lines, because the said central European populations were indistinguishable from the people they mixed with further west. Still, it would explain the proximity of present-day Central French people to the Lech Valley and Singen samples, plus some Bavarian Beakers. It would also explain why I get a few percents of East Central Europe IA (ie pre-Slavic) pops in some models with Ancients. That's where I stand for now.

    Time will tell - hopefully.
    Immi uiros rios toutias rias
     
    ___ Paper trail since 1550 : 100% South Auvergne, France ___
    Distance: 1.510% : 50.0 German , 50.0 Spanish Castilla .... Distance: 1.453% : 50.4 Swiss German , 49.6 Spanish Barcelona
    Distance: 1.659% : 50.2 Scottish , 49.8 French Corsica...... Distance: 1.714% : 50.8 Italian Lombardy , 49.2 French Brittany
    Distance: 1.959% : 50.8 Irish , 49.2 Italian Tuscany ......... Distance: 2.189% : 50.8 Dutch , 49.2 Basque French

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Andour For This Useful Post:

     Cascio (02-19-2021),  Riverman (02-10-2021)

  5. #183
    Registered Users
    Posts
    794
    Sex
    Location
    Belgrade
    Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Nationality
    Serb
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2-BY55783>BY79593

    Serbia Montenegro Bosnia and Herzegovina Croatia Split-Dalmatia
    Update on R1b Mokrin samples:


    Half-brothers MOK19A and MOK22 belong to subclade Y14420>BY127891>BY89871, parallel to Y14420>Y14512. They share SNP BY127891 with one Turk and one Swede, and additionally SNP FT162140 at BY89871 level with Swedish guy. Both samples have:

    BY127891+ G>A (1A)

    FT162140+ G>T (1T)


    Second-degree relatives MOK24A and MOK27 belong to subclade CTS7556>FT139559*. They share SNP FT182089 at FT139559 level with a guy from Belgium and are ancestral for SNPs at downstream subclade FT40347 formed by said Belgian and one sample of unknown origin. Both samples have:

    FT182089+ G>T (1T)
    Last edited by Pribislav; 09-04-2021 at 09:20 PM.

  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Pribislav For This Useful Post:

     ADW_1981 (09-04-2021),  Alain (09-06-2021),  Ariel90 (09-04-2021),  Artmar (09-05-2021),  Joe B (09-05-2021),  R.Rocca (09-04-2021),  rafc (09-04-2021),  Riverman (09-04-2021)

  7. #184
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,672
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    Update on R1b Mokrin samples:

    Half-brothers MOK19A and MOK22 belong to subclade Y14420>BY127891>BY89871, parallel to Y14420>Y14512. They share SNP BY127891 with one Turk and one Swede, and additionally SNP FT162140 at BY89871 level with Swedish guy. Both samples have:
    Interesting Yamnaya lineage. Their relatives seem to have split into a more Northern European group, common in Germanics and an Indian, probably coming in with Indo-Iranians:
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/R-Y14415/

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Pribislav (09-04-2021)

  9. #185
    Registered Users
    Posts
    730
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a-M319
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2-M223

    Does anyone know when the raw data for these samples might be released?
    "93.8% Greek_Peloponnese (N=27) + 6.2% Yamnaya_RUS_Samara" "0.0196"

  10. #186
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    420
    Sex
    Nationality
    Finnish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z142
    mtDNA (M)
    H10g

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Does anyone know when the raw data for these samples might be released?
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/vi...643?show=reads

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to teepean47 For This Useful Post:

     Riverman (09-15-2021),  Sorcelow (09-15-2021),  Tomenable (09-15-2021)

Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9171819

Similar Threads

  1. I2 in Early Bronze Age Britain
    By ADW_1981 in forum I
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-28-2020, 08:13 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-04-2017, 09:33 AM
  3. mtDNA form Early Bronze Age Bulgaria
    By eastara in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-29-2016, 12:56 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-14-2016, 12:14 PM
  5. Early Bronze Age to roman era DNA from Syria
    By soulblighter in forum Other
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-17-2016, 07:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •