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Thread: A Genomic Compendium of an Island: Documenting Continuity and Change across Irish Hum

  1. #261
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    I have watched this documentary (3 hours) and read the book. A lot of it is way out there. Here is the link to the Atlantis Ireland documentary. To paraphrase the author: “This writing could be the ravings of a madman, the work of a genius, or anything in-between so do not believe a word you read, just do your own research and most importantly do your thinking.”

    https://youtu.be/6k_igac6AfU

    Atlantis Ireland: Top Ten Objections

    https://youtu.be/t7n_YlP8tVU

    Atlantis Ireland: Kindle

    Atlantis Ireland https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08C7ZMM..._PbXfFbX5TP1GW

    It reminds me of Bob Quinn’s documentary from the early 80s The Atlantean.

    https://youtu.be/RqabDHMQczk

    And the associated book from 2005.

    The Atlantean Irish

    https://youtu.be/24IH7RaNjdI

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atlantean-I.../dp/1843510243

    It also has echoes of Facing the Ocean: The Atlantic and it’s Peoples, 8000 BC to AD 1500, by Barry Cunliffe

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facing-Ocea.../dp/0199240191

    Of course recent DNA papers have confirmed that R1b-L21-DF21 was established on the Atlantic and in Ireland by 4,000 ybp and was also found in Narbonne region (a Celtic stronghold) and R1b-DF27 was firmly established in Iberia by this time.
    Gerard Corcoran
    R1b-DF21-S5456-S6166, H1C1

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    To paraphrase the author: “This writing could be the ravings of a madman, the work of a genius, or anything in-between so do not believe a word you read, just do your own research and most importantly do your thinking.”
    Clearly option one. The author/lecturer is so out of touch with reality the Hubble telescope would have trouble finding him. Raving is right!

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    Yeah the alternitive model that western Scotland was Gaelic before Dalriada is contradicted by all positive evidence and relies entirely on negative evidence. That said, I think Gaelic may have trickled across as early as 300AD or even slighty earlier as the romans had little to no control over that area.
    I saw something that suggested one of the better pieces of evidence of at least a trickle would be A212 (downstream of CTS4466) showing up in family names in Islay and Jura which were thought to be very old, elsewhere in Scotland, in England and a little in the plantation parts of NI but none in Munster where most CTS4466 is found.

    True they could have gone north from Munster to NI and came over later, or even from Conall Corc, but the early legends of Dail Riata (pre Fergus) suggest at least part of the confederation where from Munster, part of Clanna Dedad who I've seen linked as a possible CTS4466 too.

    If the cuttoff dates for the A212 mutation that FTDNA seem to think are true are correct then it would be 200BC-100AD at best. If they were in Northern Ireland until 300AD you'd think they'd be more of trace there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevlos21 View Post
    I saw something that suggested one of the better pieces of evidence of at least a trickle would be A212 (downstream of CTS4466) showing up in family names in Islay and Jura which were thought to be very old, elsewhere in Scotland, in England and a little in the plantation parts of NI but none in Munster where most CTS4466 is found.

    True they could have gone north from Munster to NI and came over later, or even from Conall Corc, but the early legends of Dail Riata (pre Fergus) suggest at least part of the confederation where from Munster, part of Clanna Dedad who I've seen linked as a possible CTS4466 too.

    If the cuttoff dates for the A212 mutation that FTDNA seem to think are true are correct then it would be 200BC-100AD at best. If they were in Northern Ireland until 300AD you'd think they'd be more of trace there.
    Problem is no actual surnames of Clans relating to the part of Dalriada that remained in Ireland survive. Basically Irish Dalriada was in severe decline by the time surnames were becoming fixed and there is not one clan or surname relating to Irish Dalriada known. The supposed link to Munster is bogus apart from perhaps the fact they were considered to Errain. But that term isnt a tribal or clan name even though clan type genealogies were invented to make it appear so. Errain is a population strata name probably having either a link with the ancient Iverni tribe and/or or meaning 'Ireland people'. There is a bit of disagreement among linguists about Iverni, Errain and Ierne and Eire and their linguistic relationships. Even now there seems to be disagreement. But there is no way of knowing what the Irish Dalriada were like genetically without ancient DNA. Luckily Irish Dalriada has a lot of early church sites and I think early christian era burials have been found within Irish Dalriada including at their chief church at Armoy. So, I think there may be skeletal material that maybe some day will make a very interesting ancient DNA project that may answer the questions. Armoy would be ideal as it was clearly the most important church in Irish Dalriada. There were also a lot of burials of that era found at Solar but its in the disputed zone that may have been just south of Dalriada in the area of the Latharna, a sub-tribe of the DalnAraide who were reckoned as Cruithin not Errain despite being neighbours.
    Last edited by alan; 07-31-2020 at 06:41 PM.

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    A curious link between the Errain tribes in SW coastal Ireland and the tribes in the opposite (north-east) end of the island - Dalriada (coastal Antrim) and Dal Fiathach (coastal Down) is they were the most highly regarded seafaring tribes. Both are known for naval raiding and settling in Britain. Dalriada in Scotland and Dal Fiathach
    in the Isle of Man. Dalriada in the north-east and the Corcu Duibne in the south-west at opposite ends of the island seem to have been especially reputed for naval skills. I think I recall someone doing a study to work out where the pre-Viking era trading posts were on the coast and it included Bantry Bay and Galway bay if I recall correctly. In addition, a lot of Ptolemy's map 'towns' were likely trading posts by the coast or river mouths and a recent attempt to more carefully interpret Ptolemy's map seems to show that many of the later Viking era trading areas - Wexford, Dublin coastal area and several others - seem to have had late iron age precursors. I am not implying continuity, just that they were probably the best natural harbours and trading posts so would have kept being chosen again and again in different eras. Places like the Dublin coast waterford, wexford, cork, Bantry, Galway bay, Clew Bay, Sligo Bay etc.

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