Query regarding Basque and British/Ashkenazi grandfather

[BalkanKiwi]

Hi friends,

This section seems the most appropriate place to post this question, as all of you are more knowledgeable than me in Spanish history.

To start with, my grandfather's known ancestry is Scottish, English and Ashkenazi. On myOrigins V3 he has 3% Basque. My mother gets 2% Basque. My sister and I don't get any. When the update came along I ignored it, but now I'm curious so I've done some quick investigating.

Grandfather's V3

Central Europe - 42%
Great Britain - 41%
Scandinavia - 9%
Ashkenazi Jewish - 5%
Basque - 3%
Greece & Balkans - <1%

On most calculators he gets between 5-10% Basque on average. I've attempted to model him and myself with Basque Spanish to see what comes up.

Scaled with penalty:

Grandfather

Sample:	Balkan Kiwi ► BKGrandfather
Fit:	1.4144
Results:	Scottish	60
	English	33
	Basque Spanish	4.5
	Ashkenazi Poland	2.5

Me

Sample:	Balkan Kiwi ► BalkanKiwi
Fit:	0.9213
Results:	Irish	51.5
	Scottish	28
	Croatian	12.5
	Lebanese Christian	4
	Basque Spanish	3
	Papuan	1

I'm currently not overly active on the forum, so I'm not sure with the V3 update if Basque has become more common among those with British ancestry. I know if its real, its likely not from my father's side, as he only gets 1% at the most when modelling.

Is Basque DNA distinct enough that if it shows up often enough, it's likely an indicator of minor ancestry from the area? If so, is it possible its connected to the Ashkenazi, or would it be more associated with Sephardic Jews? Or, is it not real, and is simply just acting as a proxy for something else?

EDIT:

G25 Modern Averages scaled for grandfather:

Distance: 2.1387% / 0.02138708
69.4 Orcadian
15.6 Shetlandic
8.8 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
5.0 Spanish_Asturias
0.8 Yemenite_Jew
0.2 Gupta
0.2 Koinanbe

[timberwolf]

Hi friends,

This section seems the most appropriate place to post this question, as all of you are more knowledgeable than me in Spanish history.

To start with, my grandfather's known ancestry is Scottish, English and Ashkenazi. On myOrigins V3 he has 3% Basque. My mother gets 2% Basque. My sister and I don't get any. When the update came along I ignored it, but now I'm curious so I've done some quick investigating.

Grandfather's V3

Central Europe - 42%
Great Britain - 41%
Scandinavia - 9%
Ashkenazi Jewish - 5%
Basque - 3%
Greece & Balkans - <1%

On various calculators he gets 2-3% Basque. I've attempted to model him and myself with Basque Spanish to see what comes up.

Scaled with penalty:

Grandfather

Sample:	Balkan Kiwi ► BKGrandfather
Fit:	1.4144
Results:	Scottish	60
	English	33
	Basque Spanish	4.5
	Ashkenazi Poland	2.5

Me

Sample:	Balkan Kiwi ► BalkanKiwi
Fit:	0.9213
Results:	Irish	51.5
	Scottish	28
	Croatian	12.5
	Lebanese Christian	4
	Basque Spanish	3
	Papuan	1

I'm currently not overly active on the forum, so I'm not sure with the V3 update if Basque has become more common among those with British ancestry. I know if its real, its likely not from my father's side, as he only gets 1% at the most when modelling.

Is Basque DNA distinct enough that if it shows up often enough, it's likely an indicator of minor ancestry from the area? If so, is it possible its connected to the Ashkenazi, or would it be more associated with Sephardic Jews? Or, is it not real, and is simply just acting as a proxy for something else?

I often get Basque on many calculators and if I don't get Basque I get Iberian and my paper trail is British.

Where did you get the penalty result for yourself and your grandfather, what tool did you use?

[BalkanKiwi]

I often get Basque on many calculators and if I don't get Basque I get Iberian and my paper trail is British.

Where did you get the penalty result for yourself and your grandfather, what tool did you use?

Interesting. I use GenoPlot. I forgot to add the G25 Modern Averages results for my grandfather, which I've added to the first post.

I haven't seen your myOrigins V3 results. Has it given you/any family members Basque at all? As I said, perhaps this is just a normal thing among those with British ancestry.

[timberwolf]

With their update no. I got BI 68 Ireland 22 Iberian 7 and Central Europe 3

G25 unscaled and no penalty

Target: Timberwolf
Distance: 0.2589% / 0.00258868
60.2 Irish
11.4 Belgian
8.8 Dutch
6.4 Welsh
5.0 Basque_Spanish
4.6 Basque_French
2.6 German
0.4 Mlabri
0.4 Swedish
0.2 Mbuti

[timberwolf]

With G25 Scaled I still get Basque at 0.5x

Target: Timberwolf_scaled
Distance: 1.6927% / 0.01692670 | ADC: 0.5x
87.6 English_Cornwall
9.0 Irish
3.4 Basque_French

Target: Timberwolf_scaled
Distance: 1.6099% / 0.01609864 | ADC: 0.25x
51.6 English_Cornwall
35.0 Irish
10.4 Basque_French
1.8 Shetlandic
1.2 French_Seine-Maritime

Target: Timberwolf_scaled
Distance: 1.5800% / 0.01579953
31.6 Irish
26.2 English_Cornwall
17.0 Basque_French
15.2 Shetlandic
9.8 Icelandic
0.2 Igorot

[BalkanKiwi]

With G25 Scaled I still get Basque at 0.5x

Target: Timberwolf_scaled
Distance: 1.6927% / 0.01692670 | ADC: 0.5x
87.6 English_Cornwall
9.0 Irish
3.4 Basque_French

Target: Timberwolf_scaled
Distance: 1.6099% / 0.01609864 | ADC: 0.25x
51.6 English_Cornwall
35.0 Irish
10.4 Basque_French
1.8 Shetlandic
1.2 French_Seine-Maritime

Target: Timberwolf_scaled
Distance: 1.5800% / 0.01579953
31.6 Irish
26.2 English_Cornwall
17.0 Basque_French
15.2 Shetlandic
9.8 Icelandic
0.2 Igorot

So we have something to compare to. I assume Basque Spanish and Basque French are somewhat genetically similar?

Grandfather scaled:

Distance: 2.1525% / 0.02152476 | ADC: 0.25x
79.8 Orcadian
11.2 Spanish_Asturias
5.8 Shetlandic
2.0 Scottish
1.2 Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Distance: 2.2035% / 0.02203475 | ADC: 0.5x
81.8 Orcadian
11.2 English_Cornwall
7.0 Spanish_Asturias

[timberwolf]

So we have something to compare to. I assume Basque Spanish and Basque French are somewhat genetically similar?

Grandfather scaled:

Distance: 2.1525% / 0.02152476 | ADC: 0.25x
79.8 Orcadian
11.2 Spanish_Asturias
5.8 Shetlandic
2.0 Scottish
1.2 Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Distance: 2.2035% / 0.02203475 | ADC: 0.5x
81.8 Orcadian
11.2 English_Cornwall
7.0 Spanish_Asturias

Yeah, I would not imagine there would be significant differences between Basques in France and Spain.

I always say that any model that gives me about 50% Cornish is a really good model for me.

[BalkanKiwi]

Yeah, I would not imagine there would be significant differences between Basques in France and Spain.

I always say that any model that gives me about 50% Cornish is a really good model for me.

The ADC: 0.25x for you is a pretty good fit then!

[rober_tce]

Hi BalkanKiwi!!!

The Basque component in both samples is similar. Basque spanish and Basque french are very closer geneticaly.

Your ancestor is Ashkenazi, don't you? Where is he/she from? After 1492 and 1496, some Sepharadim Jewish mírate to East Europe and mixed with Ashkenazim communities. Maybe it could be a posibility, if we take in consideration you score spanish in some calculators.

Also we can consider another hypothesis, as spanish/Basque results could be ancient components. People of peninsular Bell Beakers cultures for example migrated to British Islands and Ireland.

Do you have spanish matches? Have you could triangulate in some segment without pile up?

[BalkanKiwi]

Hi BalkanKiwi!!!

The Basque component in both samples is similar. Basque spanish and Basque french are very closer geneticaly.

Your ancestor is Ashkenazi, don't you? Where is he/she from? After 1492 and 1496, some Sepharadim Jewish mírate to East Europe and mixed with Ashkenazim communities. Maybe it could be a posibility, if we take in consideration you score spanish in some calculators.

Also we can consider another hypothesis, as spanish/Basque results could be ancient components. People of peninsular Bell Beakers cultures for example migrated to British Islands and Ireland.

Do you have spanish matches? Have you could triangulate in some segment without pile up?

Hi rober_tce,

Thanks for the reply. On my Ashkenazi line, I can only go back as far as my 3rd great grandfather, who was born in Warsaw, Poland. For that reason alone, I don't know how plausible it would be for Jews from Eastern Europe to have Basque ancestry (unless, as you say, Sephardic Jews mixed, however he's never had Sephardic Jewish come up on a test). The other option is as you say, from ancient times.

Regarding matches, my grandfather has 34 Spanish matches on MyHeritage. Many of these matches have certain amounts of Ashkenazi ancestry, but there's a few that don't score any Ashkenazi and have mostly Iberian. There's a few matches with large amounts of Ashkenazi and Iberian as well, which makes it tricky. Most of the Spanish matches have only Spanish surnames listed under "Ancestral places", however I guess it seems Spain had a large influx of Ashkenazi Jews? I would assume its possible many of these Spanish matches have Ashkenazi ancestors they don't know about.