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Thread: Filling Important Gaps in the Genomic History of Southwest Asia

  1. #21
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    ETM means...?

    Looks like there's E-M84 at Arslantepe (Anatolia), and wherever ETM is. I haven't found the supps.
    The clock indicates the moment—but what does eternity indicate?

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  3. #22
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    Can anyone identify the elephant in the room from the paywalled paper and find which individual in the supplements is the plausibly Central Asian one?

    That part of the paper is very exciting, because it hints at confirmation of groups like the Mitanni elite and the "Maryannu" Late Bronze Age warrior class being from Central Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    ETM means...?

    Looks like there's E-M84 at Arslantepe (Anatolia), and wherever ETM is. I haven't found the supps.
    ETM refers to the ancient site of Ebla in northwestern Syria.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    M J H20a 2334-2149 calBCE (3810±20 BP, PSUAMS-2167)
    M J K 1971-1782 calBCE (3560±20 BP, OS-139225)
    M J T2e 1950-1800 BCE
    F n/a (female) .. 1950-1800 BCE
    M J2a1b1 H+152 1527-1439 calBCE (3220±20 BP, OS-139223)
    M J H14a 1496-1302 calBCE (3135±30 BP, Poz-83433)
    M J1a2b H2a2a 1800-1650 BCE
    M J1a2b U2d 1800-1650 BCE
    M J2a J1d1a1 1623-1518 calBCE (3295±20 BP, PSUAMS-4852)
    M J1a2b U2e1b 1600-1500 BCE
    F n/a (female) U2e1b 1600-1500 BCE
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) J1d 1600-1500 BCE
    M R U3b 1600-1500 BCE
    F n/a (female) U3b 1600-1500 BCE
    M E1b1b1b2a1 T2c1+146 1550-1450 BCE
    M E1b1b1b2a1a T2c1+146 1550-1450 BCE
    F n/a (female) N1b1a2 1900-1700 BCE
    M J1a2b N1b1 1900-1700 BCE
    M J1a2b T1a 1880-1700 calBCE (3470±20 BP, OS-139224)
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) .. 1732-1451 calBCE (3300±55 BP, RTK-6767)
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) .. 1700-1600 BCE
    M J1a2b T2b7a 1700-1500 BCE
    F n/a (female) T2 1688-1535 calBCE (3338±21 BP, RTK-7899)
    F n/a (female) U1a1a3 1650-1550 BCE
    M J .. 1638-1413 calBCE (3240±55 BP, RTK-6765)
    M J K1a18 1600-1500 BCE
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) X 1600-1500 BCE
    F n/a (female) T1a 1600-1500 BCE
    F n/a (female) T2c1a 1600-1500 BCE
    F n/a (female) .. 1600-1500 BCE
    M R1b1a1a2 J2a2a2 1600-1500 BCE
    M J U3b 1600-1278 calBCE (3160±55 BP, RTK-6766)
    M T1a1a1b2 HV2a1 1550-1300 BCE
    M J1a2b H5'36 1509-1432 calBCE (3207±20 BP, RTK-7898)
    M J1 K1a 1107-923 calBCE (2845±25 BP, PSUAMS-2166)
    M T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2 X2 1011-846 calBCE (2790±30 BP, Poz-83471)
    M J1a2b HV1b3 1800-1700 BCE
    M E1b1b1b2a1 R0a2 1800-1700 BCE
    F n/a (female) N1b1b 1450-1250 BCE
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) n/a (<2x mtDNA coverage) 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) T1a 2500-2000 BCE
    M J T1a2 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) U1a1 2500-2000 BCE
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) n/a (<2x mtDNA coverage) 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) n/a (<2x mtDNA coverage) 2500-2000 BCE
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) .. 2500-2000 BCE
    M n/a (<50000 autosomal SNPs) H40a 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) J1c2i 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) .. 2500-2000 BCE
    M J .. 2500-2000 BCE
    M J2b N1b1a2 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) n/a (<2x mtDNA coverage) 2500-2000 BCE
    F n/a (female) U3a2a 1550-1150 BCE
    M J1a2b N1b1a 1550-1150 BCE
    M J1a2b N1b1a2 1412-1234 calBCE (3065±30 BP, PSUAMS-1992)
    F n/a (female) N1b1a 1409-1265 calBCE (3070±25 BP, PSUAMS-1991)
    M J1a2b U3b3 1550-1150 BCE
    M J1a2b U3b1a 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) H23 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) H1+152 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) U3a3 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) U3b3 1550-1150 BCE
    M J1a2b U3b 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) H 1550-1150 BCE
    M J1a2b T2c1a 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) T2c1a 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) U1a'c 1550-1150 BCE
    M J U4a 1550-1150 BCE
    F n/a (female) I5 1496-1396 calBCE (3155±20 BP, PSUAMS-3720)
    M J1a2b J1b2 1492-1303 calBCE (3130±25 BP, PSUAMS-1987)
    M J1a2b N2a1 1428-1293 calBCE (3100±25 BP, PSUAMS-1989)
    M J1a2b L0f2b 1424-1288 calBCE (3095±25 BP, PSUAMS-1990)
    M J1a2b T1a1 1384-1213 calBCE (3025±20 BP, PSUAMS-3719)
    Again ......., very little T1 ydna found ( find more samples in neolithic Germany and Bulgaria ) ..............looks like T project people stating origins either south of Aral sea or south caucasus is still in play


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    Can anyone identify the elephant in the room from the paywalled paper and find which individual in the supplements is the plausibly Central Asian one?

    That part of the paper is very exciting, because it hints at confirmation of groups like the Mitanni elite and the "Maryannu" Late Bronze Age warrior class being from Central Asia.
    Is this the one you meant?

    "Other ancient populations from the Caucasus and the Western steppe also produced high affinity but f4(Mbuti, X; Turanx, ALA019) suggest that ALA019 differs from other Turan individuals by occasionally sharing more or less alleles with either Iran_N or WSHG (Figure 7B ), which agrees with the presence of a genetic cline in this area. In the absence of ancient genomes from nearby regions such as Southern Mesopotamia, the most likely ancestral origin of this individual was somewhere in Eastern Iran or Central Asia."

    figs4.jpg
    Figure S4Eurasian PCA with Neolithic to Bronze Age Individuals from Iran and Turan and the Genetic Outlier Individual from Alalakh (ALA019), Related to Figure 7
    Scatter plot of PC1 and PC2 from PCA computed on modern-day Eurasian populations (gray points) shows that the Alalakh_MLBA_outlier (ALA019) is genetically closer to individuals from Chalcolithic and Bronze Age Iran/Turan. Colored labels and points refer to ancient populations and black labels to modern-day populations.
    Last edited by pmokeefe; 05-28-2020 at 06:11 PM.
    YFull: YF14620 (Dante Labs 2018)

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  11. #26
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    If anyone wants the paywalled paper, I have it via legitimate means (institutional subscription). Happy to e-mail it on request.
    The clock indicates the moment—but what does eternity indicate?

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    The J1 samples from the ancient site of Alalakh in southern Turkey are almost entirely J-Z2317, with one other sample being J-Z2324. It's very interesting considering that the city was believed to have been founded by the Amorites during the Bronze Age.

    The J-Z1842 sample is from Arslantepe which is today located in the Malatya region of eastern Turkey. This may strengthen the belief that Z1842 clusters expanded from eastern Anatolia into the Caucasus sometime during the Bronze Age or a little earlier.

    The other J-P58 samples are from the ancient site of Ebla in western Syria. One of the samples has been identified as P58>Z2321 whilst the others were left as P58. Inscriptions from this site that date back to the Bronze Age have been discovered and linguists believe that the language spoken in the city was part of the Eastern Semitic branch, the language has been coined as Eblaite.

    The other J1 sample is from Tell Kurdu which is a part of the Amuq/Amik Valley and is J-L620. If I recall correctly, it's believed that this site had ties with the Ubaid culture.
    Indeed, Ubaidian material shows up at Tell Kurdu. It'll be worthwile to verify whether that J1-L620 individual will also turn out to be P58 once we get hold of the BAM files. We might be witnessing the first pulse of Iran Chalcolithic-type ancestry into the Levant, this sample is at the right time and at the right place for that. Regardless, this is a preliminary sign that all the theories ascribing J1's arrival in the Levant to Kura-Araxes are off the mark.

    For the other samples, there really are no surprises here. In Ebla we apparently have one Z1853 individual, which places him directly upstream from Z2331, even if this holds true it's totally expected, I've been saying for years now that the basal branches of Z2331 would prove to be a correlate for the East Semitic branch, something directly upstream also fits in this view of things. In Alalakh, nearly all of them are Z2317, as you said this is in all likeliness going to be Amorite, we are after all dealing with a site that later had the 2nd millennium "Amorite Cultural Assemblage":



    All of this just serves to underline how strongly correlated the spread of J1-P58's branches are with early Semitic dispersals, we now have J1-P58 samples from a variety of early NW (including Amorite and Canaanite) and East Semitic-speaking sites.

    Mesopotamia is going to be the key to answering many of the questions left here, and I sense we won't have to wait too long before we start seeing data from that area.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 05-28-2020 at 10:17 PM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    Haplogroups for The Genomic History of the Bronze Age Southern Levant here:
    https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.c...b12aa70d4/mmc2
    One of the samples is R1b:
    I10768 Megiddo_MLBA 1600-1500 BCE J2a2a2 R1b1a1a2
    From Eurogenes:
    An early Mitanni?
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2020/0...y-mitanni.html
    "Note that one of the females from Bronze Age Alalakh, labeled ALA019, appears to have ancestry from Central Asia and the Eurasian steppe. She may well have been an Indo-Aryan Mitanni.

    Interestingly, one of the males from Copper Age Arslantepe, ART038, belongs to Y-haplogroup R1b1a2. This is an unusual find, because R1b hasn't yet been reported in any Copper Age samples from outside of Europe and the Eurasian steppe. However, as far as I can tell, this individual doesn't harbor any genome-wide ancestry from north of the Caucasus."

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  17. #29
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    It looks like the majority of Y-DNA J samples from Arslantepe are J2a.

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  19. #30
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    Could somebody obtain the dates for the Çamlıbel Tarlası samples? They are situated in the immediate periphery of the Hittite center of power, and IIRC the settlement was founded in the Chalcolithic.

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