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Thread: The Genomic History of the Bronze Age Southern Levant

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    Literally not a single derived SNP at any level below previously reported M417.
    yeah but he has for most snps below M417 no calls so he could be literally everything except the few snps under M417 which he was ancestral/negative for. He could be Z2124, L657, Y40 or even R1a-Z93-. We will unfortunately never know this...

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  3. #132
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    I2201; 1011-846 BC; Abel Beth Maacah, Israel; Abel_IA; T1a1-Z710>L906>Y4984>P77>Y4964>Y4956>CTS6507>CTS6280 (xYP5441,Y32895,Y32893)


    Z710 level: FGC3993/Z714+ C>A (5A); CTS8512+ G>T (1T)

    L906 level: L906/CTS660+ G>T (4T)

    Y4984 level: *no calls*

    P77 level: Y4992/FGC4004/Y4962+ G>A (2A); L907/CTS7225+ G>T (1T)

    Y4964 level: *no calls*

    Y4956 level: *no calls*

    CTS6507 level: *no calls*

    CTS6280 level: CTS6280+ G>A (1A)

    CTS6280>YP5441 level: YP5444- A>T (1A)

    CTS6280>Y32895 level: CTS676/M11045- C>T (2C); Y153679- C>T (2C); Y32896- C>A (1C)

    CTS6280>Y32893 level: Y32892- G>C (1G); Y32893- G>T (1G)

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  5. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    yeah but he has for most snps below M417 no calls so he could be literally everything except the few snps under M417 which he was ancestral/negative for. He could be Z2124, L657, Y40 or even R1a-Z93-. We will unfortunately never know this...
    Or M417 (xZ645, xCTS4385).
    Or split within the M417 level.
    YFull lists 32 SNPs at the M417 level. Is he positive for all that there are calls for?

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  7. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Or M417 (xZ645, xCTS4385).
    Or split within the M417 level.
    YFull lists 32 SNPs at the M417 level. Is he positive for all that there are calls for?

    The Chaubey data has reported 12 M417xZ645 samples.
    Quote Originally Posted by misnomer View Post
    ...



    As CTS4385 has a completely western distribution these could be xCTS4385 too.

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  9. #135
    I'd like to know more about the historical and cultural context of these DNA results and the implications.

    According to Genesis God ordered the patriarch Abraham to leave his native land of Haran and embark on a journey to "a land that I will show you."

    When they arrived in the land of Canaan, Abraham passed through the land as far as the site of Shechem, at the terebinth of Moreh. The Canaanites were then in the land
    ,vers 5 and 6 in chapter 12.



    My question is: Does these DNA findings validate the bible accounts that link the Israelites to Northern Mesopotamia through Abraham?

    What about the prophet Ezekiel who describes the origins of Jerusalem, by using all three terms:

    Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem: Your origin and your birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite, and your mother a Hittite.
    (Ezek. 16:3)."

    I think the bible gives us lots of hints about how the Bronze Age was a very formative period in the history of Southern Levant. Plus prior to these DNA findings there was a debate among historians whether the Canaanites were really an ethnic group or rather a merely linguo-cultural community. Anyway, these new discoveries confirm that the Canaanites from the bible were indeed a clear and pretty homogeneous group.

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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.sparco View Post
    I think the bible gives us lots of hints about how the Bronze Age was a very formative period in the history of Southern Levant.
    Just to remind you - according to modern estimations Torah has been written in 8th-7th centuries BCE. There are no so many hints about reality of Late Bronze Age in its text (not no mention Middle Bronze Age when modern-like popualtion of South Levant was formed).
    The oldest texts of the Bible(Tanach) are about times of biblical judges - it's worth to search for hints there.

    P.S. Levant Bronze Age lasted about 2100 years (3300 BCE – 1200 BCE). I guess any period of time lasting so long can be called 'a very formative period'. Time period from late Maccabees until early 21st century no doubt can be called very formative for Southern Levant.

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  13. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Or M417 (xZ645, xCTS4385).
    Or split within the M417 level.
    YFull lists 32 SNPs at the M417 level. Is he positive for all that there are calls for?
    Yes he is positive for all available calls at M417 level. ie only 1 refSNP rs113032887

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  15. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.sparco View Post
    My question is: Does these DNA findings validate the bible accounts that link the Israelites to Northern Mesopotamia through Abraham?
    Aren't the Canaanites (and hence Israelites) possibly descended in part from the Bronze Age Amorites? That's a link to Mesopotamia right there.

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  17. #139
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    Does anyone know if it is possible to upload to GEDMATCH for one-to-one/one-to-many DNA comparison and admixture analysis? The BAM files are now available, but I do not have the technical skills to convert to 23andme format for GEDMATCH upload. I am particularly interested in I2201 and I4517 which are the Abel Beth Maacah and latest Meggido samples.

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  19. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    Just to remind you - according to modern estimations Torah has been written in 8th-7th centuries BCE. There are no so many hints about reality of Late Bronze Age in its text (not no mention Middle Bronze Age when modern-like popualtion of South Levant was formed).
    The oldest texts of the Bible(Tanach) are about times of biblical judges - it's worth to search for hints there.

    P.S. Levant Bronze Age lasted about 2100 years (3300 BCE – 1200 BCE). I guess any period of time lasting so long can be called 'a very formative period'. Time period from late Maccabees until early 21st century no doubt can be called very formative for Southern Levant.
    Those "estimations" of the Torah's age are derived from the philosophy of the old documentary hypothesis of the 1970s. Nowadays, most biblical scholars subscribe to a wide variety of differing hypotheses, and there is no one unifying hypothesis like there was in the 70s and 80s. The truth is that it is extremely difficult to estimate a document's age based on linguistics alone.

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