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Thread: Genomic History of Neolithic to Bronze Age Anatolia, N Levant, and S Caucasus 2020

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelkolar View Post
    Only from the MLBA does Arslantepe become associated with the Hittites. Before that no one knows what the identity of the inhabitants was.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melid
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Yes I am curious about the origins of the Arslantepe samples as well. There is a lot of J2a there.
    The region of Arslantepe is in the middle of Kura-Araxes culture and Anatolia BA(hattic-hittite) it is normal IMO a lot of lineages to be J2a.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Do you really believe EBA Jordanians were of Amorite origins?Hmm interesting.Isn't their Natufian admixture a little bit higher compared to other Cannanite samples or i am wrong?Thought some mixes with arab nomadic tribes would be a possible senario.Also what you think about the Arslantepe?A hurro-hittite cultural complex or something related?
    Many people forget that the Amorites weren't just a Middle Bronze Age phenomenon, and they weren't circumscribed to Syria either. Several sources already mention their existence during the second half of the 3rd millennium BCE, Sumerian sources speak of MAR-TU.KI that is to say the land of the Amorites, Akkadian (and later Old Babylonian) sources also speak of Mārē Amurrum (DUMU.MEŠ MAR-TU) which is the Akkadian for "Sons of the Western lands". The urban Amorite environment of the MBA was due to the re-urbanisation that took place after the 4.2 kiloyear event, and it is quite likely that the Amorite personal names we know from the Eblaite and Mariote archives represent only a subset of the Amorite language (the Western Amorite dialect in particular, which is possibly ancestral to Ugaritic), it is reasonable to think that the Canaanites were themselves originally a subset of the Amorites who'd stayed put in the Southern Levant. The EBA samples from Ayn Ghazal fit into this pre-4.2 kiloyear context.

    But that's above the point, as you said these samples are quite distinctive, and in my view they represent a strand of ancestry which is either very close or identical to what the Proto-Semites were like, in other words probably the type of population that arose after the initial dissemination of Iranian Chalcolithic-type ancestry in the Levant.

    The earliest Arabs would arise only a millennium later, and would expand slowly over the next two millennia inland towards Yemen.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowhite View Post
    I am not sure about the other sites but for Arslantepe something is off unless the archaeologists misinterpreted the results and genetics showed that some presumed female remains are actually male.

    ART001 has a Y-DNA haplogroup listed although in the archaeological information section this is the description.

    ''ART001 (H156 S138) is a female in pit burial from Period VI D2. Evidence of epicondylitis was observed on both humeri. The
    remains also exhibit evidence of severe osteoarthritis. Dating of human bone: 2470-2301 cal BCE (3908 ± 26 BP,
    MAMS-33533).''


    ART011 is also listed as having a Y-DNA haplogroup and here is the description of this sample below.

    ''ART011 (S220-1) is a ca. 30-year-old female represented by a skull and disarticulated long bones found on the floor of a
    dwelling from Period VI B2, together with other bones from ART009 and ART010. No pathology was found on preserved cranial
    bones. Dating: 2839-2581 cal BCE (4103 ± 26 BP, MAMS-33538)''


    Something is off.

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Many people forget that the Amorites weren't just a Middle Bronze Age phenomenon, and they weren't circumscribed to Syria either. Several sources already mention their existence during the second half of the 3rd millennium BCE, Sumerian sources speak of MAR-TU.KI that is to say the land of the Amorites, Akkadian (and later Old Babylonian) sources also speak of Mārē Amurrum (DUMU.MEŠ MAR-TU) which is the Akkadian for "Sons of the Western lands". The urban Amorite environment of the MBA was due to the re-urbanisation that took place after the 4.2 kiloyear event, and it is quite likely that the Amorite personal names we know from the Eblaite and Mariote archives represent only a subset of the Amorite language (the Western Amorite dialect in particular, which is possibly ancestral to Ugaritic), it is reasonable to think that the Canaanites were themselves originally a subset of the Amorites who'd stayed put in the Southern Levant. The EBA samples from Ayn Ghazal fit into this pre-4.2 kiloyear context.

    But that's above the point, as you said these samples are quite distinctive, and in my view they represent a strand of ancestry which is either very close or identical to what the Proto-Semites were like, in other words probably the type of population that arose after the initial dissemination of Iranian Chalcolithic-type ancestry in the Levant.

    The earliest Arabs would arise only a millennium later, and would expand slowly over the next two millennia inland towards Yemen.
    Τy.Useful post as always!!!

    So EBA Levant is the Proto-Semitic chronological period.I also think Iran C related admixture never reached in big amounts the very southern parts of the Levant..hence why modern Arabs are less west asian admixed and less anatolian N compared to Cannanite populations.It would be very interesting also to found out one day what it was the languange before Semitic in the Levant and especially during the Natufian culture.It would be afroasiatic or not?
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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  11. #16
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    This insane glut of papers is going to keep me busy all week so apologies if it's already mentioned, but we actually have our first ancient Mesopotamian sample here: Titris Hoyuk. That site is located east of the Euphrates and south of the Taurus Mountains, so it's technically in Upper Mesopotamia, not Anatolia. Based on the dating in the chart (2100-2400 BCE), I would guess this individual is a Hurrian. Haven't looked much deeper into it though.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  13. #17
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    KRD003 - Y-DNA J1a2a~ AM01306/CTS1797/PF4689/Z2356

    - KRD003 (TK_22:2) is a mature adult placed in a simple pit in a tightly flexed position. The burial included a small painted
    necked-jar placed near the head as well as a Dark Faced Burnished globular jar discovered by the feet. Dating of human
    bone: 5661-5630 cal BCE (6739 ± 23 BP, MAMS-40665).
    Too Northern and too old, I guess he can be J1 negative to P58 and negative to L136. Let's wait and see.
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    ALA095 falls into this little-known (and almost exclusively Middle Eastern ... and Ashkenazi) sibling branch of J2b-M241: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2453/.
    The clock indicates the moment—but what does eternity indicate?

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  17. #19
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    Someone able to determine the Y-haplogroup of KRD005?
    Does anyone know when the more older Neolithic age focused studies will be published on the regions of Upper Mesopotamia?

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  19. #20
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    Does anyone have the 1240k data for this study?
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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