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Thread: Genomic History of Neolithic to Bronze Age Anatolia, N Levant, and S Caucasus 2020

  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Nice.Yes Caucasus it is also a little bit complex when it comes to genetics.I do agree that Georgians are mostly CHG+ANF.Laz and Trabzon have Colchian origins but they have been mixed with native anatolians(kaskians,hattians,hittites) hence their more ANF related ancestry.But i think their caucasus admixture is more related with Western Georgia since Colchians come from the West.What it makes kinda interested it is that South Caucasians lacking steppe admixture(or they got it in very limited amounts).
    Well Georgians having no or little Steppe admixture can be explained by their isolation. While their arrival to East Georgia happened somewhat late. But note that in G25 we only have Central Georgian samples from Imereti. East Georgians should have 1-10% Steppe.
    As for Armenians, I guess they're largely Urartian-like genetically?

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  3. #192
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    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by Korotyr View Post
    Well Georgians having no or little Steppe admixture can be explained by their isolation. While their arrival to East Georgia happened somewhat late. But note that in G25 we only have Central Georgian samples from Imereti. East Georgians should have 1-10% Steppe.
    As for Armenians, I guess they're largely Urartian-like genetically?
    Yes you are right here.Our samples from Georgia coming from the central areas.If we get samples in the future from the eastern parts it is not impossible to see results similar to Dagestanis.Caucasian Iberia might have been like modern Chechen's-Ingush people genetically...so more Steppe admixture!!!!

    Armenians have the same amounts of CHG/Iran N but sometimes they shift more Iran N.Their genetics are kinda weird,we need more samples from them.They look a combination of Hurrians-Hattians-Hittites(Arslantepe EBA) and probably a Transcaucasus(Kura-Araxes-Trialeti?) group like Urartians or something(Increase in CHG+Iran N). + proto-armenians(steppe Catacomb like).Thought later in history they have come in contact with other populations from mesopotamia/levant.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.4987% / 0.01498655
    51.8 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    24.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    14.8 Levant_Baqah_BA
    5.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    3.4 RUS_Catacomb

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  5. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korotyr View Post
    Can't say for sure since they aren't available in G25, think due to low SNPs. But looking at modern Northwest Caucasians, they're the only people in the Caucasus that can completely lack Iran_N. KAC and Maykop on the other hand were packed with it. Dolmen should be like Darkveti-Meshoko but with slightly more Anatolia. In Wang et al Dolmen was modeled with a very high % of CHG ancestry, which is impressive considering that the sample is from LBA, but I really doubt that it will be higher than 70% CHG.
    Attachment 38521
    I can't remember exactly how many Dolmen samples Wang at al. tested but I do remember that Y-DNA J2a showed up in at least one of them.

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  7. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korotyr View Post
    I'm almost certain that Abkhazians and other Northwest Caucasians are more related to Dolmen.
    Georgians are tricky, much like Northwest Caucasians they are genetically West Caucasian at their core (High CHG, low Iran_N), KAC on the other hand was like 20-25% Iran_N, too much for West Caucasians.
    According to Gamkrelidze and Ivanon, Proto Kartvelians inhabited the Northern parts of Lesser Caucasus. During the EMBA there was a migration to Colchis/West Georgia by the proto-Svan tribes, who several centuries later were kicked out from Colchis to Svaneti by proto Zan (Megrel-Laz). In the LBA there was a migration from West Georgia/Colchis into East Georgia which is attested with the Shida Kartli culture, the Shida Kartlians were likely Kartvelians who later mixed with leftover proto-Nakh and proto-Lezgic tribes in East Georgia, becoming modern Kartlians, Kakhetians etc (aka Iberians).

    If Gamkrelidze and Ivanov are correct, then it is possible that the proto Kartvelians were somewhat KAC-like, but then they became more Dolmen shifted after they mixed with the natives of Colchis (assuming that they mixed), who I think were proto-Northwest Caucasians.

    As for Trabzon, I'm not sure, they're like on a cline between Georgians and Armenians. Could be a Colchian, Hemsheni and perhaps even a Kaskian influence.
    The mixing of ancient Shida Kartlians and proto-Nakhs in East Georgia makes sense and may be at least part of the reason that East Georgians tend to have much higher frequencies of Y-DNA J2a-M67 compared to West Georgians

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  9. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    The mixing of ancient Shida Kartlians and proto-Nakhs in East Georgia makes sense and may be at least part of the reason that East Georgians tend to have much higher frequencies of Y-DNA J2a-M67 compared to West Georgians
    Yeah, but most of J2a in East Georgia is located near the border. There's still some in the lowlands however.

    Georgia Haplogroups.jpg
    Last edited by Korotyr; 07-15-2020 at 03:53 PM.

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  11. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korotyr View Post
    Yeah, but most of J2a in East Georgia is located near the border. There's still some in the lowlands however.

    Georgia Haplogroups.jpg
    Yeah you are right actually. The very high percentages of J2a among the Georgians of Khevi, Tusheti and Khevsureti no doubt comes from Nakhs/Vainakh admixture.

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  13. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korotyr View Post
    Yeah, but most of J2a in East Georgia is located near the border. There's still some in the lowlands however.

    Georgia Haplogroups.jpg
    Caucasus Dolmen culture sample.

    I2051_Marchenkova Gora D13 3260.0_Dolmen LBA - J2a-M410

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