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Thread: Some frequencies in West/Central Europe

  1. #1
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    Some frequencies in West/Central Europe

    I had a look at the FTDNA haplotree to get information on Y-DNA frequencies in a few countries in Western Europe (ok, only the U152 "heavy" countries)

    Total:

    Code:
    	A(xBT)	B	C	E	G	H(+F-M89)I1	I2	J1	J2	L	N	O	Q	R1a	R1b(xM269)R1b-M269 T
    England	0.1	-	0.1	3.4	4.1	0.3	20.0	10.0	0.8	2.9	0.1	0.1	<0.1	0.8	4.0	0.1	52.6	0.5
    Germany	<0.1	-	0.2	6.9	7.6	0.1	18.0	9.3	3.0	7.5	0.3	0.4	<0.1	0.8	9.8	0.2	34.8	1.1
    France	0.2	<0.1	0.1	6.0	6.6	0.1	10.0	7.1	1.5	7.6	0.2	0.2	<0.1	0.4	2.4	0.1	56.4	1.1
    Italy	0.3	-	0.2	12.9	14.1	0.2	3.9	5.4	7.6	21.1	0.8	0.1	-	0.5	3.3	0.3	25.6	3.8
    Switz.	-	-	-	7.2	12.4	0.2	12.9	9.6	1.3	6.5	1.0	0.1	-	0.9	3.3	-	43.8	0.9
    Spain	-	<0.1	0.2	11.8	6.5	0.1	5.2	6.2	7.2	10.6	0.3	0.1	0.2	0.9	1.4	0.1	46.0	3.0
    Benelux	<0.1	-	-	4.6	5.4	0.5	19.5	7.2	1.6	5.6	0.2	0.1	0.1	1.3	3.3	0.1	48.9	1.4
    Some difficulties:
    - not everyone has tested to the same level, so I need to estimate who has tested to a terminal SNP and who not and have to extrapolate going downstream.
    - For a number of men it is unclear whether they are I1 or I2; I divided these equally among both groups, because there was no obvious correlation. In the same way, there seem to be quite a number of men being stuck at R1b-M343, while being M269.
    - I included F-M89 with H; I'm not up to date whether this can be done for every West-European F-M89.
    - there is still a huge bias towards the USA, which means that for example certain parts of England, Germany, Italy and France will be overrepresented and some will be underrepresented.
    - "national averages" do not capture small-scale variation within a country.

    R1b-M269 (extrapolated percentages of total):

    Code:
    	PF7562	L23*	Z2103	L51*	PF7589	P310*	L151*	A8053	S1194	U106	P312* DF19	L238	L21	FGC84729	DF27	U152
    England	<0.1	0.1	0.3	<0.1	0.2	-	0.5	<0.1	0.6	18.8	0.4	0.9	0.1	15.9	0.5	      7.9	6.3
    Germany	0.1	0.3	0.9	0.1	0.4	<0.1	0.3	<0.1	0.5	15.3	0.2	1.5	<0.1	3.1	0.5	      3.9	7.7
    France	-	0.6	1.0	0.2	0.1	0.1	0.9	-	0.2	8.9	0.5	0.6	-	12.0	0.6	      16.7	14.0
    Italy	0.8	0.6	2.7	0.3	0.4	-	0.2	-	0.2	2.6	0.2	0.1	<0.1	1.3	0.5           3.1	12.5
    Switz.	-	0.5	1.1	0.4	0.7	-	0.5	-	0.2	11.2	0.3	0.3	-	2.4	1.1	      6.5	18.5
    Spain	0.1	0.5	0.7	0.1	0.2	-	1.1	-	-	2.3	0.5	-	-	6.2	0.1	      30.2	3.9
    Benelux	0.2	0.2	0.2	0.2	0.2	-	0.5	-	1.7	24.5	0.3	2.5	-	4.8	0.3	      6.6	6.9
    Here too, it is not always clear who has done a complete test and who still has some testing to do; e.g. how many of the L151 are really L151*?
    About 10% of P312 testers has no downstream haplogroup; based on ytree.net and yfull, I estimated that 1.2% of P312 might indeed be P312* and I divided the rest among the downstream groups by the ratio of the haplogroups which they already possess. (It would however not surprise me if a lot of this P312* is actually DF27) The amount of U152 seems low for Italy; obviously it is much lower in the far south and much higher in the far north, likely this is partly because of the USA sample bias.
    Note that FGC48729 includes DF99.
    EDIT: woops I had a small mistake in this table, it is now solved.

    U152 subclades (extrapolated percentages of U152):

    Code:
    	L2	Z36	Z56	Z193	U152*
    England	74.7	7.2	11.2	5.0	1.9
    Germany	68.3	19.9	6.8	3.1	1.8
    France	78.1	7.8	10.0	1.9	2.2
    Italy	53.9	21.3	18.7	5.7	0.4
    Switz.	65.4	25.0	5.8	2.6	1.3
    Spain	60.9	15.2	15.2	6.5	2.2
    Benelux	70.1	7.5	13.4	6.0	3.0
    Not a lot of surprises here, I think.

    Subclades of U152 (extrapolated percentages of total):

    Code:
    	L2	Z36	Z56	Z193	U152*
    England	4.7	0.5	0.7	0.3	0.1
    Germany	5.3	1.5	0.5	0.2	0.1
    France	10.9	1.1	1.4	0.3	0.3
    Italy	6.7	2.7	2.3	0.7	0.1
    Switz.	12.1	4.6	1.1	0.5	0.2
    Spain	2.4	0.6	0.6	0.3	0.1
    Benelux	4.8	0.5	0.9	0.4	0.2
    Last edited by Pylsteen; 05-30-2020 at 08:25 PM.

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     CelticGerman (06-06-2020),  Dewsloth (06-01-2020),  Michał (05-31-2020),  MitchellSince1893 (06-01-2020),  Webb (05-31-2020),  Wing Genealogist (06-02-2020)

  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    I had a look at the FTDNA haplotree to get information on Y-DNA frequencies in a few countries in Western Europe (ok, only the U152 "heavy" countries)

    Total:

    Code:
    	A(xBT)	B	C	E	G	H(+F-M89)I1	I2	J1	J2	L	N	O	Q	R1a	R1b(xM269)R1b-M269 T
    England	0.1	-	0.1	3.4	4.1	0.3	20.0	10.0	0.8	2.9	0.1	0.1	<0.1	0.8	4.0	0.1	52.6	0.5
    Germany	<0.1	-	0.2	6.9	7.6	0.1	18.0	9.3	3.0	7.5	0.3	0.4	<0.1	0.8	9.8	0.2	34.8	1.1
    France	0.2	<0.1	0.1	6.0	6.6	0.1	10.0	7.1	1.5	7.6	0.2	0.2	<0.1	0.4	2.4	0.1	56.4	1.1
    Italy	0.3	-	0.2	12.9	14.1	0.2	3.9	5.4	7.6	21.1	0.8	0.1	-	0.5	3.3	0.3	25.6	3.8
    Switz.	-	-	-	7.2	12.4	0.2	12.9	9.6	1.3	6.5	1.0	0.1	-	0.9	3.3	-	43.8	0.9
    Spain	-	<0.1	0.2	11.8	6.5	0.1	5.2	6.2	7.2	10.6	0.3	0.1	0.2	0.9	1.4	0.1	46.0	3.0
    Benelux	<0.1	-	-	4.6	5.4	0.5	19.5	7.2	1.6	5.6	0.2	0.1	0.1	1.3	3.3	0.1	48.9	1.4
    Some difficulties:
    - not everyone has tested to the same level, so I need to estimate who has tested to a terminal SNP and who not and have to extrapolate going downstream.
    - For a number of men it is unclear whether they are I1 or I2; I divided these equally among both groups, because there was no obvious correlation. In the same way, there seem to be quite a number of men being stuck at R1b-M343, while being M269.
    - I included F-M89 with H; I'm not up to date whether this can be done for every West-European F-M89.
    - there is still a huge bias towards the USA, which means that for example certain parts of England, Germany, Italy and France will be overrepresented and some will be underrepresented.
    - "national averages" do not capture small-scale variation within a country.

    R1b-M269 (extrapolated percentages of total):

    Code:
    	PF7562	L23*	Z2103	L51*	PF7589	P310*	L151*	A8053	S1194	U106	P312* DF19	L238	L21	FGC84729	DF27	U152
    England	<0.1	0.1	0.3	<0.1	0.2	-	0.5	<0.1	0.6	18.8	0.4	0.9	0.1	15.9	0.5	      7.9	6.3
    Germany	0.1	0.3	0.9	0.1	0.4	<0.1	0.3	<0.1	0.5	15.3	0.2	1.5	<0.1	3.1	0.5	      3.9	7.7
    France	-	0.6	1.0	0.2	0.1	0.1	0.9	-	0.2	8.9	0.5	0.6	-	12.0	0.6	      16.7	14.0
    Italy	0.8	0.6	2.7	0.3	0.4	-	0.2	-	0.2	2.6	0.2	0.1	<0.1	1.3	0.5           3.1	12.5
    Switz.	-	0.5	1.1	0.4	0.7	-	0.5	-	0.2	11.2	0.3	0.3	-	2.4	1.1	      6.5	18.5
    Spain	0.1	0.5	0.7	0.1	0.2	-	1.1	-	-	2.3	0.5	-	-	6.2	0.1	      30.2	3.9
    Benelux	0.2	0.2	0.2	0.2	0.2	-	0.5	-	1.7	24.5	0.3	2.5	-	4.8	0.3	      6.6	6.9
    Here too, it is not always clear who has done a complete test and who still has some testing to do; e.g. how many of the L151 are really L151*?
    About 10% of P312 testers has no downstream haplogroup; based on ytree.net and yfull, I estimated that 1.2% of P312 might indeed be P312* and I divided the rest among the downstream groups by the ratio of the haplogroups which they already possess. (It would however not surprise me if a lot of this P312* is actually DF27) The amount of U152 seems low for Italy; obviously it is much lower in the far south and much higher in the far north, likely this is partly because of the USA sample bias.
    Note that FGC48729 includes DF99.
    EDIT: woops I had a small mistake in this table, it is now solved.

    U152 subclades (extrapolated percentages of U152):

    Code:
    	L2	Z36	Z56	Z193	U152*
    England	74.7	7.2	11.2	5.0	1.9
    Germany	68.3	19.9	6.8	3.1	1.8
    France	78.1	7.8	10.0	1.9	2.2
    Italy	53.9	21.3	18.7	5.7	0.4
    Switz.	65.4	25.0	5.8	2.6	1.3
    Spain	60.9	15.2	15.2	6.5	2.2
    Benelux	70.1	7.5	13.4	6.0	3.0
    Not a lot of surprises here, I think.

    Subclades of U152 (extrapolated percentages of total):

    Code:
    	L2	Z36	Z56	Z193	U152*
    England	4.7	0.5	0.7	0.3	0.1
    Germany	5.3	1.5	0.5	0.2	0.1
    France	10.9	1.1	1.4	0.3	0.3
    Italy	6.7	2.7	2.3	0.7	0.1
    Switz.	12.1	4.6	1.1	0.5	0.2
    Spain	2.4	0.6	0.6	0.3	0.1
    Benelux	4.8	0.5	0.9	0.4	0.2
    It’s interesting how the U152 subclades percentages on your last 2 charts for England and BeNeLux are so similar (especially the bottom chart).
    Wonder if this in part due to BeNeLux being a prime jumping off point for England.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 06-01-2020 at 10:43 PM.
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    It’s interesting how the U152 subclades percentages on your last 2 charts for England and BeNeLux are so similar (especially the bottom chart).
    Wonder if this in part due to BeNeLux being a prime jumping off point for England.
    Gauls, Belgians, Romans, medieval merchants, I tend to think so.
    Last edited by Pylsteen; 06-02-2020 at 12:24 PM.

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