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Thread: [split] Armenians: Origins & Steppe Admix?

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    [split] Armenians: Origins & Steppe Admix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Modern Armenians do not score so high steppe admixture as you saying.They usually score 5-8% depends. Do not confuse gedmatch with G25. On gedmatch even Pontic Greeks score steppe..
    15% isn't really that high to begin with when compared to Bronze Age Armenians. I am talking about Vahaduo where Armenians(without Armenia139 and 279) average about or slightly below 15% steppe. Also, even Pontic Greeks score steppe on the newer calculators at around 5-8%. You also have to remember that academic samples for whatever reasons understate the steppe component in Armenians when compared to real individuals. At least when using Gedmatch calculators for comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Modern Armenians do not score so high steppe admixture as you saying.They usually score 5-8% depends. Do not confuse gedmatch with G25. On gedmatch even Pontic Greeks score steppe..
    Here you go buddy. Even Trabzonians score some steppe around 6-7% on average give or take.

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21515
    Distance: 2.0418% / 0.02041803
    43.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    37.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    8.8 RUS_Catacomb
    6.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    3.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21177
    Distance: 1.9252% / 0.01925176
    47.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    33.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    10.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    5.2 RUS_Catacomb
    3.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21174
    Distance: 2.2112% / 0.02211167
    40.8 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    33.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.8 RUS_Catacomb
    5.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21173
    Distance: 2.1518% / 0.02151784
    41.8 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    32.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    13.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    5.6 RUS_Catacomb

    Target: Armenian:GS000035124
    Distance: 2.7712% / 0.02771209
    31.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    29.0 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    17.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    13.4 RUS_Catacomb
    9.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:GS000013745
    Distance: 1.6017% / 0.01601747
    32.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    32.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    13.6 RUS_Catacomb
    5.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia86
    Distance: 2.1053% / 0.02105341
    36.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    24.4 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    21.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    11.2 RUS_Catacomb
    5.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia102
    Distance: 2.7179% / 0.02717935
    31.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    27.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    15.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    14.8 RUS_Catacomb
    11.2 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25004
    Distance: 2.5642% / 0.02564151
    53.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    26.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    8.4 Levant_Natufian
    6.2 RUS_Catacomb
    5.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25003
    Distance: 2.4321% / 0.02432100
    56.0 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    30.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    5.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    4.8 RUS_Catacomb
    3.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25002
    Distance: 1.8227% / 0.01822668
    41.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    34.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    11.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.0 RUS_Catacomb
    4.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25001
    Distance: 2.9306% / 0.02930591
    52.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    31.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    7.6 RUS_Catacomb
    5.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    2.6 Levant_Natufian

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    Here you go buddy. Even Trabzonians score some steppe around 6-7% on average give or take.

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21515
    Distance: 2.0418% / 0.02041803
    43.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    37.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    8.8 RUS_Catacomb
    6.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    3.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21177
    Distance: 1.9252% / 0.01925176
    47.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    33.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    10.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    5.2 RUS_Catacomb
    3.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21174
    Distance: 2.2112% / 0.02211167
    40.8 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    33.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.8 RUS_Catacomb
    5.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Turkish_Trabzon:Trabzon21173
    Distance: 2.1518% / 0.02151784
    41.8 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    32.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    13.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    5.6 RUS_Catacomb

    Target: Armenian:GS000035124
    Distance: 2.7712% / 0.02771209
    31.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    29.0 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    17.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    13.4 RUS_Catacomb
    9.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:GS000013745
    Distance: 1.6017% / 0.01601747
    32.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    32.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    13.6 RUS_Catacomb
    5.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia86
    Distance: 2.1053% / 0.02105341
    36.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    24.4 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    21.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    11.2 RUS_Catacomb
    5.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia102
    Distance: 2.7179% / 0.02717935
    31.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    27.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    15.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    14.8 RUS_Catacomb
    11.2 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25004
    Distance: 2.5642% / 0.02564151
    53.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    26.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    8.4 Levant_Natufian
    6.2 RUS_Catacomb
    5.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25003
    Distance: 2.4321% / 0.02432100
    56.0 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    30.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    5.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    4.8 RUS_Catacomb
    3.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25002
    Distance: 1.8227% / 0.01822668
    41.2 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    34.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    11.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.0 RUS_Catacomb
    4.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Greek_Trabzon:G25001
    Distance: 2.9306% / 0.02930591
    52.6 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En
    31.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    7.6 RUS_Catacomb
    5.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    2.6 Levant_Natufian
    Your models are weird. You using an eneolithic model, a bronze age and the rest are Neolithic. Try to model them with ancient components.Use Karelia_HG to estimate the EHG among Armenians and other South Caucasians. Don't forget also that Catacomb culture contains CHG admixture.

    I will try some models later..
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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     Agamemnon (05-31-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Your models are weird. You using an eneolithic model, a bronze age and the rest are Neolithic. Try to model them with ancient components.Use Karelia_HG to estimate the EHG among Armenians and other South Caucasians. Don't forget also that Catacomb culture contains CHG admixture.

    I will try some models later..
    Catacomb culture is likely the source of steppe admixture for Armenians hence why I used them as it was advised to me by the user Token. I use Darkveti because it is mostly comprised of CHG with some minor EEF in it and almost nothing else. Any CHG admixture would be captured by Darkveti, not Catacomb.

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     Arame (05-31-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    Catacomb culture is likely the source of steppe admixture for Armenians hence why I used them as it was advised to me by the user Token. I use Darkveti because it is mostly comprised of CHG with some minor EEF in it and almost nothing else. Any CHG admixture would be captured by Darkveti, not Catacomb.
    We don't know for sure where the steppe(Proto-Armenian) source is coming from. It might come from the west instead from Catacomb.We need ancient DNA for it.

    Even if we say that Catacomb is the reason for the steppe autosomal among Armenians still their steppe amount % is limited.Definitely not 15%. Modern Armenians are more Levant shifted instead Caucasus like Georgians, Laz and people from Trabzon. Also the steppe among Armenians might coming from Hurrians and not just from the Proto-Armenian wave that Brought these R1b lineages and the Armenian dialect. The samples from Armenia MBA/LBA are likely of Hurrian origins and they show a descent amount of EHG input. As for the Darkveti sample I wouldn't trust an eneolithic model to run a modern population. You have two options. Run with very ancient components(you can just use CHG REFRENCE and EHG to estimate it.). Catacomb contains CHG and AF admixture and this is why South Caucasians including Trabzon have a good fit. If you run these ethnic groups with EHG refrence you Wil realize that we have invisible EHG admixture or a 2-3%.Armenians and Assyrians a little bit more thought.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    Catacomb culture is likely the source of steppe admixture for Armenians hence why I used them as it was advised to me by the user Token. I use Darkveti because it is mostly comprised of CHG with some minor EEF in it and almost nothing else. Any CHG admixture would be captured by Darkveti, not Catacomb.
    We don't know for sure where the steppe(Proto-Armenian) source is coming from. It might come from the west instead from Catacomb.We need ancient DNA for it.

    Even if we say that Catacomb is the reason for the steppe autosomal among Armenians still their steppe amount % is limited.Definitely not 15%. Modern Armenians are more Levant shifted instead Caucasus like Georgians, Laz and people from Trabzon. Also the steppe among Armenians might coming from Hurrians and not just from the Proto-Armenian wave that Brought these R1b lineages and the Armenian dialect. The samples from Armenia MBA/LBA are likely of Hurrian origins and they show a descent amount of EHG input. As for the Darkveti sample I wouldn't trust an eneolithic model to run a modern population. You have two options. Run with very ancient components(you can just use CHG REFRENCE and EHG to estimate it.). Catacomb contains CHG and AF admixture and this is why South Caucasians including Trabzon have a good fit. If you run these ethnic groups with EHG refrence you Wil realize that we have invisible EHG admixture or a 2-3%.Armenians and Assyrians a little bit more thought.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    Catacomb culture is likely the source of steppe admixture for Armenians hence why I used them as it was advised to me by the user Token. I use Darkveti because it is mostly comprised of CHG with some minor EEF in it and almost nothing else. Any CHG admixture would be captured by Darkveti, not Catacomb.
    Armenians with very ancient refrences.As you can see their EHG admixture is limited to almost none!Armenians are actually more Levant/Mesopotamian shifted coming genetically very close with their neighbors Assyrians.Keep in mind also that many Armenians besides their R1b and J2a clades they got some J1 lineages witch seems to be of Cannanite origins.


    Target: Armenian:GS000035125
    Distance: 3.7663% / 0.03766271
    40.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.6 GEO_CHG
    12.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:GS000035124
    Distance: 3.6947% / 0.03694707
    42.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.2 GEO_CHG
    21.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.0 Levant_Natufian
    1.0 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:GS000013745
    Distance: 3.2997% / 0.03299749
    43.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.8 GEO_CHG
    21.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia86
    Distance: 2.8962% / 0.02896239
    45.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    19.2 GEO_CHG
    5.4 Levant_Natufian
    1.2 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia279
    Distance: 2.9105% / 0.02910507
    42.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    22.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.4 GEO_CHG
    12.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia176
    Distance: 2.9998% / 0.02999783
    45.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    21.4 GEO_CHG
    7.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia139
    Distance: 3.5367% / 0.03536721
    47.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    15.8 GEO_CHG
    9.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia102
    Distance: 3.4916% / 0.03491589
    38.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.6 GEO_CHG
    21.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    10.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

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     Agamemnon (05-31-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Armenians with very ancient refrences.As you can see their EHG admixture is limited to almost none!Armenians are actually more Levant/Mesopotamian shifted coming genetically very close with their neighbors Assyrians.Keep in mind also that many Armenians besides their R1b and J2a clades they got some J1 lineages witch seems to be of Cannanite origins.


    Target: Armenian:GS000035125
    Distance: 3.7663% / 0.03766271
    40.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.6 GEO_CHG
    12.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:GS000035124
    Distance: 3.6947% / 0.03694707
    42.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.2 GEO_CHG
    21.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.0 Levant_Natufian
    1.0 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:GS000013745
    Distance: 3.2997% / 0.03299749
    43.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.8 GEO_CHG
    21.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia86
    Distance: 2.8962% / 0.02896239
    45.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    19.2 GEO_CHG
    5.4 Levant_Natufian
    1.2 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia279
    Distance: 2.9105% / 0.02910507
    42.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    22.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.4 GEO_CHG
    12.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia176
    Distance: 2.9998% / 0.02999783
    45.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    21.4 GEO_CHG
    7.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia139
    Distance: 3.5367% / 0.03536721
    47.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    15.8 GEO_CHG
    9.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia102
    Distance: 3.4916% / 0.03491589
    38.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.6 GEO_CHG
    21.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    10.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG
    Those fit distances are not that great. Geo_CHG for whatever reason doesn't seem to capture the CHG admixture that is present in a lot of populations, Armenians included hence why I use Darkveti as a reference for CHG. Once Again, Karelia is not the source of Steppe for Armenians hence why your fit distances are not that great. If you use Catacomb, then you will realize that it works much better. Also, Armenians are not Levant shifted. The academic samples of Armenia279 and Armenia 139 are extreme outliers, probably not even Armenian to begin with simply gives such an impression. Since we don't have any real individuals on these websites, the best thing I did was to collect samples of real individuals for various ethnic groups to make an average.

    Distance to: armenia279
    10.34473779 Iranian_Jew
    11.62426772 Kurdish_Jew
    12.23372797 Assyrian
    12.86293124 Iraqi_Jew
    13.10364072 Georgian_Jew
    15.05082058 Armenian_West
    16.87872033 Greek_Trabzon
    17.12361527 Kurd
    17.39835050 Armenian_East
    18.61452659 Lebanese_Christian
    18.93550105 Turkish_Trabzon
    19.03315003 Lebanese_Druze
    19.72700687 Iranian_Lur
    19.80367390 Lebanese_Muslim
    20.09827356 Turkish_East
    21.38706151 Iranian_Mazandarani
    22.12944193 Azerbaijani
    22.37010058 Turkish_Kayseri
    22.89381139 Georgian_Laz
    23.06397624 Cypriot
    23.36348433 Syrian
    23.51485275 Turkish_Anatolia
    23.83092529 Turkish_Adana
    23.92802959 Iranian_Persian
    23.94162484 Palestinian

    Distance to: armenia139
    11.30822709 Iranian_Jew
    11.94620023 Assyrian
    12.34729930 Kurdish_Jew
    12.83668181 Georgian_Jew
    13.74123721 Iraqi_Jew
    14.18139626 Armenian_West
    15.45434567 Greek_Trabzon
    16.41717393 Armenian_East
    17.36092739 Kurd
    17.48578280 Turkish_Trabzon
    18.71924678 Lebanese_Christian
    19.25647424 Turkish_East
    19.36026859 Lebanese_Druze
    19.77137577 Lebanese_Muslim
    20.47094526 Iranian_Lur
    21.60642497 Georgian_Laz
    22.24969663 Azerbaijani
    22.35419424 Iranian_Mazandarani
    22.40582960 Cypriot
    22.45141866 Turkish_Kayseri
    23.34952462 Turkish_Anatolia
    23.55800925 Syrian
    23.64214457 Turkish_Adana
    23.70744609 Turk_Meskhetian
    24.24378271 Iranian_Persian



    The Armenian average

    Distance to: Armenian_Academic_samples_average
    4.85884760 Armenian_East
    5.54790050 Greek_Trabzon
    5.97991639 Turkish_Trabzon
    6.05750774 Turkish_East
    6.57320318 Armenian_West
    9.12201732 Georgian_Laz
    9.15132777 Kurd
    10.74517566 Turk_Meskhetian
    10.89347511 Georgian_Jew
    12.54614283 Assyrian
    12.73261167 Azerbaijani
    13.47934717 Iranian_Lur
    13.96086674 Turkish_Kayseri
    14.66830597 Iranian_Mazandarani
    14.79309636 Turkish_Anatolia
    16.93296784 Iranian_Persian
    17.05339849 Turkish_Adana
    18.02756223 Azeri_Dagestan
    18.08354501 Kurdish_Jew
    19.73482202 Iranian_Jew
    20.87549520 Lebanese_Muslim
    21.07696847 Georgian
    22.25738978 Turkish_Aydin
    23.75700739 Syrian
    24.21916184 Lebanese_Christian


    So where does this suggest that Armenians are "very close" to Assyrians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Armenians with very ancient refrences.As you can see their EHG admixture is limited to almost none!Armenians are actually more Levant/Mesopotamian shifted coming genetically very close with their neighbors Assyrians.Keep in mind also that many Armenians besides their R1b and J2a clades they got some J1 lineages witch seems to be of Cannanite origins.


    Target: Armenian:GS000035125
    Distance: 3.7663% / 0.03766271
    40.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.6 GEO_CHG
    12.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:GS000035124
    Distance: 3.6947% / 0.03694707
    42.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.2 GEO_CHG
    21.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.0 Levant_Natufian
    1.0 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:GS000013745
    Distance: 3.2997% / 0.03299749
    43.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.8 GEO_CHG
    21.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia86
    Distance: 2.8962% / 0.02896239
    45.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    19.2 GEO_CHG
    5.4 Levant_Natufian
    1.2 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia279
    Distance: 2.9105% / 0.02910507
    42.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    22.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.4 GEO_CHG
    12.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia176
    Distance: 2.9998% / 0.02999783
    45.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    21.4 GEO_CHG
    7.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia139
    Distance: 3.5367% / 0.03536721
    47.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    15.8 GEO_CHG
    9.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia102
    Distance: 3.4916% / 0.03491589
    38.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.6 GEO_CHG
    21.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    10.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG
    Those fit distances are not that great. Geo_CHG for whatever reason doesn't seem to capture the CHG admixture that is present in a lot of populations, Armenians included hence why I use Darkveti as a reference for CHG. Once Again, Karelia is not the source of Steppe for Armenians hence why your fit distances are not that great. If you use Catacomb, then you will realize that it works much better. Also, Armenians are not Levant shifted. The academic samples of Armenia279 and Armenia 139 are extreme outliers, probably not even Armenian to begin with simply gives such an impression. Since we don't have any real individuals on these websites, the best thing I did was to collect samples of real individuals for various ethnic groups to make an average.

    Distance to: armenia279
    10.34473779 Iranian_Jew
    11.62426772 Kurdish_Jew
    12.23372797 Assyrian
    12.86293124 Iraqi_Jew
    13.10364072 Georgian_Jew
    15.05082058 Armenian_West
    16.87872033 Greek_Trabzon
    17.12361527 Kurd
    17.39835050 Armenian_East
    18.61452659 Lebanese_Christian
    18.93550105 Turkish_Trabzon
    19.03315003 Lebanese_Druze
    19.72700687 Iranian_Lur
    19.80367390 Lebanese_Muslim
    20.09827356 Turkish_East
    21.38706151 Iranian_Mazandarani
    22.12944193 Azerbaijani
    22.37010058 Turkish_Kayseri
    22.89381139 Georgian_Laz
    23.06397624 Cypriot
    23.36348433 Syrian
    23.51485275 Turkish_Anatolia
    23.83092529 Turkish_Adana
    23.92802959 Iranian_Persian
    23.94162484 Palestinian

    Distance to: armenia139
    11.30822709 Iranian_Jew
    11.94620023 Assyrian
    12.34729930 Kurdish_Jew
    12.83668181 Georgian_Jew
    13.74123721 Iraqi_Jew
    14.18139626 Armenian_West
    15.45434567 Greek_Trabzon
    16.41717393 Armenian_East
    17.36092739 Kurd
    17.48578280 Turkish_Trabzon
    18.71924678 Lebanese_Christian
    19.25647424 Turkish_East
    19.36026859 Lebanese_Druze
    19.77137577 Lebanese_Muslim
    20.47094526 Iranian_Lur
    21.60642497 Georgian_Laz
    22.24969663 Azerbaijani
    22.35419424 Iranian_Mazandarani
    22.40582960 Cypriot
    22.45141866 Turkish_Kayseri
    23.34952462 Turkish_Anatolia
    23.55800925 Syrian
    23.64214457 Turkish_Adana
    23.70744609 Turk_Meskhetian
    24.24378271 Iranian_Persian



    The Armenian average

    Distance to: Armenian_Academic_samples_average
    4.85884760 Armenian_East
    5.54790050 Greek_Trabzon
    5.97991639 Turkish_Trabzon
    6.05750774 Turkish_East
    6.57320318 Armenian_West
    9.12201732 Georgian_Laz
    9.15132777 Kurd
    10.74517566 Turk_Meskhetian
    10.89347511 Georgian_Jew
    12.54614283 Assyrian
    12.73261167 Azerbaijani
    13.47934717 Iranian_Lur
    13.96086674 Turkish_Kayseri
    14.66830597 Iranian_Mazandarani
    14.79309636 Turkish_Anatolia
    16.93296784 Iranian_Persian
    17.05339849 Turkish_Adana
    18.02756223 Azeri_Dagestan
    18.08354501 Kurdish_Jew
    19.73482202 Iranian_Jew
    20.87549520 Lebanese_Muslim
    21.07696847 Georgian
    22.25738978 Turkish_Aydin
    23.75700739 Syrian
    24.21916184 Lebanese_Christian


    So where does this suggest that Armenians are "very close" to Assyrians?

  18. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    124

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Armenians with very ancient refrences.As you can see their EHG admixture is limited to almost none!Armenians are actually more Levant/Mesopotamian shifted coming genetically very close with their neighbors Assyrians.Keep in mind also that many Armenians besides their R1b and J2a clades they got some J1 lineages witch seems to be of Cannanite origins.


    Target: Armenian:GS000035125
    Distance: 3.7663% / 0.03766271
    40.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.6 GEO_CHG
    12.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:GS000035124
    Distance: 3.6947% / 0.03694707
    42.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.2 GEO_CHG
    21.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.0 Levant_Natufian
    1.0 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:GS000013745
    Distance: 3.2997% / 0.03299749
    43.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.8 GEO_CHG
    21.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia86
    Distance: 2.8962% / 0.02896239
    45.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    19.2 GEO_CHG
    5.4 Levant_Natufian
    1.2 RUS_Karelia_HG

    Target: Armenian:armenia279
    Distance: 2.9105% / 0.02910507
    42.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    22.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    22.4 GEO_CHG
    12.8 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia176
    Distance: 2.9998% / 0.02999783
    45.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    21.4 GEO_CHG
    7.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia139
    Distance: 3.5367% / 0.03536721
    47.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    15.8 GEO_CHG
    9.4 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Armenian:armenia102
    Distance: 3.4916% / 0.03491589
    38.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    27.6 GEO_CHG
    21.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    10.2 Levant_Natufian
    2.6 RUS_Karelia_HG
    This one is the one that I have compiled.

    Euro_k15(c("Armenian_East"),k=30)
    [,1] [,2]
    [1,] "Armenian_East" "0"
    [2,] "Turkish_East" "4.0691"
    [3,] "Armenian_West" "4.9049"
    [4,] "Greek_Trabzon" "5.0443"
    [5,] "Turkish_Trabzon" "7.1416"
    [6,] "Kurd_Armenia" "8.7901"
    [7,] "Kurd" "8.9631"
    [8,] "Georgian_Jew" "9.1473"
    [9,] "Georgian_Laz" "9.5433"
    [10,] "Turk_Meskhetian" "10.7915"
    [11,] "Turkish_East_Central" "10.8545"
    [12,] "Azerbaijani" "11.0023"
    [13,] "Assyrian" "11.2855"
    [14,] "Iranian_Lur" "11.347"
    [15,] "Iraq_Turkmen" "11.3617"
    [16,] "Turkish_Anatolia" "11.4168"
    [17,] "Iranian_Mazandarani" "13.6446"
    [18,] "Turkish_Sout" "13.6658"
    [19,] "Iranian_Persian_Fars" "14.4881"
    [20,] "Azeri_Dagestan" "16.6764"
    [21,] "Kurdish_Jew" "17.3946"
    [22,] "Lebanese_Muslim" "18.6391"
    [23,] "Turkish_Southwest" "19.6542"
    [24,] "Iranian_Jew" "20.1178"
    [25,] "Syrian" "20.4556"
    [26,] "Georgian" "20.8162"
    [27,] "Turkish_Northwest" "22.705"
    [28,] "Lebanese_Christian" "23.2083"
    [29,] "Adygei" "23.9183"
    [30,] "Turkmen" "24.1397"
    > Euro_k15(c("Armenian_West"),k=30)
    [,1] [,2]
    [1,] "Armenian_West" "0"
    [2,] "Greek_Trabzon" "3.9694"
    [3,] "Armenian_East" "4.9049"
    [4,] "Georgian_Jew" "6.4651"
    [5,] "Assyrian" "7.8545"
    [6,] "Turkish_East" "8.3279"
    [7,] "Turkish_Trabzon" "9.368"
    [8,] "Kurd_Armenia" "10.092"
    [9,] "Turkish_East_Central" "10.2822"
    [10,] "Kurd" "10.8341"
    [11,] "Iraq_Turkmen" "10.9124"
    [12,] "Turkish_Anatolia" "11.6657"
    [13,] "Azerbaijani" "12.2965"
    [14,] "Iranian_Lur" "12.2987"
    [15,] "Turkish_Sout" "12.8724"
    [16,] "Georgian_Laz" "12.9572"
    [17,] "Kurdish_Jew" "13.9255"
    [18,] "Turk_Meskhetian" "14.5753"
    [19,] "Iranian_Mazandarani" "15.3396"
    [20,] "Lebanese_Muslim" "15.5429"
    [21,] "Iranian_Persian_Fars" "15.9156"
    [22,] "Iranian_Jew" "17.233"
    [23,] "Syrian" "17.9689"
    [24,] "Lebanese_Christian" "19.3566"
    [25,] "Turkish_Southwest" "19.5545"
    [26,] "Azeri_Dagestan" "20.0959"
    [27,] "Cypriot" "20.6493"
    [28,] "Lebanese_Druze" "22.5626"
    [29,] "Turkish_Northwest" "22.7291"
    [30,] "Palestinian" "23.1311"

Page 1 of 14 12311 ... LastLast

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