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Thread: Is this study credible ?

  1. #1

    Is this study credible ?

    Especially when it comes to Tuscany :

    We built a dataset of more than 1200 samples that includes European and sub-Saharan African samples from the 1000 genomes project [31]; Iberian, Basque and Canary Islands populations from Botigué et al. [3]; and a large and diverse dataset of North African populations (which includes both Arab and Berbers and covers a wide geographical extension) from Henn et al. [1] and Arauna et al. [2] (see the electronic supplementary material, table S1 and figure S1). [...] The results suggest that the gene-flow from North Africa into the European Mediterranean coast (Tuscany and the Iberian Peninsula) arrived mainly from the Mediterranean coast of North Africa. In Tuscany, this North African admixture date estimate suggests the movement of peoples during the fall of the Roman Empire around the fourth century. In the Iberian Peninsula, the North African component probably reflects the impact of the Arab expansion since the seventh century and the subsequent expansion of the Christian Kingdoms [...] However, while the data strongly supports a single event of North African admixture in Tuscany; in the Canary Islands and the Iberian Peninsula a history of multiple episodes of gene-flow cannot be ruled out, according to the goodness-of-fit test for two admixture events



    source : https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...HKDl2oRhM1E28&

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     Bealfire (06-02-2020)

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    Yes some of the Middle and late Imperial Roman samples had noticeable Iberomaurusian. Probably Tunisian/Algerian Romans going to Rome. Like for example Saint Augustin and his mother spent a long time in Italy.

    However that North African and Middle Eastern admixture got diluted over time probably as a result of rural Italians massively moving to the urban centers.

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    Don't see why not, imperial Roman samples we have are pretty diverse and people from across Afro-Eurasia were Romanised.

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    Why would North Africans move to Tuscany after the fall of Rome?

    Never heard any historical events of this.
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    In the early 5th Century, the Germanic Vandals conquered much of Roman North Africa from Tunisia westwards.
    They were heretical Arian Christians who persecuted the Catholic majority.

    Italy was more stable than Vandal-occupied North Africa as the Visigoths had moved out of Italy and west to the Garonne valley and western Gaul.

    Religious refugees probably moved not just to Tuscany but to Italy generally.

    Remember these North Africans were thoroughly Latinised and saw themselves as fully "Roman". They had been full Roman citizens since the year 212 under the reign of the Emperor Caracalla.
    Last edited by Cascio; 06-03-2020 at 06:16 PM.

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    Since we have some Tuscan kits on G25 .
    Can somebody do some modeling to show this huge African-Arabic admixture in Tuscans?
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    7. 66.4% Norwegian + 33.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.24


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    Since we have some Tuscan kits on G25 .
    Can somebody do some modeling to show this huge African-Arabic admixture in Tuscans?
    I have my doubts too, but it would have been Berber and Punic, not Arabic.
    Arabs came to North Africa with the Muslim expansion of the middle to late 7th century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    Since we have some Tuscan kits on G25 .
    Can somebody do some modeling to show this huge African-Arabic admixture in Tuscans?
    reading the paper it reads (for tuscany)
    In Tuscany, Globetrotter concludes a simple admixture event between two sources (figure 3). The major source is inferred to be related to present-day European groups, with the largest component being Iberian-like but with an additional northwestern European-like component. The minor contributing source inferred for Tuscany relates genetically to individuals from the Mediterranean shore of North Africa, though this minor source also contains an Iberian component.
    https://i.imgur.com/NMbs5RK.png

    in supp.TableS2 they reveal that the minor-source that flowed into tuscany ~485CE was a population around half north-african(med.coast) and half iberian(incl.basque); the late-antiquity samples from moots et al however do not show an influx of such a popluation making this inference sofar atleast non attested

    in another recent paper that also incl. tuscany using ADMIXTURE K=5 the results were as follows supp.TableS2 (refs.TableS8)
    https://i.imgur.com/eZUoLre.png
    maybe the refs. in the former differed
    Last edited by alexfritz; 06-03-2020 at 11:44 PM. Reason: wrong link
    Geno2.0 51 SEuro 19 WCEuro 13 Scandinavia 5 AsiaMinor 4 EEuro 4 GB/Ireland 3 Arabia myOrigins 52 WCEuro 40 SEEuro 5 BritIsles 3 WMidEast DNA.Land 49 NWEuro 27 SEuro 13 MedIslander 11 Sardinian myHeritage 51.8 NWEuro 33.2 Italian 7.9 Greek/SouthItaly 7.1 Balkan gencove 29 NItaly 19 EMed 15 NBritIsles 12 SWEuro 10 NCEuro 9 Scandinavia 6 NEEuro GenePlaza 54.4 NWEuro 37.6 Greek/Albania 5.6 WAsian 2.4 SWAsia LDNA 70.7 SouthGermanic 16.3 Tuscany 9.2 NItaly 3.8 Sardinia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    In the early 5th Century, the Germanic Vandals conquered much of Roman North Africa from Tunisia westwards.
    They were heretical Arian Christians who persecuted the Catholic majority.

    Italy was more stable than Vandal-occupied North Africa as the Visigoths had moved out of Italy and west to the Garonne valley and western Gaul.

    Religious refugees probably moved not just to Tuscany but to Italy generally.

    Remember these North Africans were thoroughly Latinised and saw themselves as fully "Roman". They had been full Roman citizens since the year 212 under the reign of the Emperor Caracalla.
    I do not recall visigoths in Italy .............ostrogoths yes, capital Ravenna
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogothic_Ravenna

    I doubt the visigoths in spain and ostrogoths in italy had the same markers


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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    I do not recall visigoths in Italy .............ostrogoths yes, capital Ravenna
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogothic_Ravenna

    I doubt the visigoths in spain and ostrogoths in italy had the same markers
    Visigoths under Alaric sacked Rome in 410.

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