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Thread: H2a In Ancient Europe

  1. #1
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    H2a In Ancient Europe

    Two Neolithic Y H2a Haplogroups have been confirmed in the 'Linkardstown', early cist burials in Ireland. 1.A burial dated to 3632-3384 BC, at Baunogenadsraid, Co Carlow. 2. A burial dated to 2849-2628 BC, at Jerpoint West,Co Kilkenny.

    There is a link on post #198, to a Thesis,by Lara M Cassidy, Documenting Continuity and Change across Irish Human Prehistory.

    There is other sets of recent papers referencing and confirming a Number of separate Y H2a1, findings both in France and Germany. A significant cluster of Y H2 being found to the East of the Rhine river around Muhlhausen, Stuttgart.

    This seems to be a different Y H2 people, from the French ones as I read into what they say that the Rhine river was an East -West seperating barrier in the Stuttgart regions, indicating that there may of been two different Neolithic routes, taken by Y H2 carriers, into Central and North Western Europe. One people possibly including seafaring, from the coasts of Iberia, Normandy etc and reaching the British Isle etc, and another travelling overland through the Balkans, from Anatolia and the Blacksea region.

    There are four 'Y H2 P96' references from Calvados Region of France, referenced on a post by artemv #2 ' Ancient Genome-Wide DNA from France' ,all are stated as pre-SNP Y19962.

    The dating for these four are FLR001 is given a date between 4045-4275 BCE. FLR002 is 4045-3965 BCE, FLR004 is given age of 4675-4490 BCE, and FLR01 4540-4405 BCE.

    I think these are all stated as Neolithic, but they now indicate a confirmed presence of Y H2 Haplogroups in early Europe. Hopefully there will be more coming

    Check the discussion boards on the Ancient DNA for more information about these.
    Last edited by Paul333; 06-02-2020 at 10:56 PM.

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    The oldest H2 found in Europe so far is the Brillenhohle sample from southern Germany, dated 14780 ybp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    The oldest H2 found in Europe so far is the Brillenhohle sample from southern Germany, dated 14780 ybp.
    Thanks, thejkhan,
    I will look for it, 'Brillenhohle' is also not too far from Mulhlhausen, so they may of been around a while.

    14,780 YBP,would be a game changer, it would confirm Y H2 as one of the oldest European Haplogroups.

    I used to transport goods across Europe by HGV etc, a few years ago, and I know the Stuttgart area, and I often would overnight at a truck stop at nearby Gersthofen, Ausburg.

    Its trying to find a connection with one group of early Y H2, and give me an excuse to visit a site, hopefully things are beginning to move regarding the presence of Y H2.
    Last edited by Paul333; 06-03-2020 at 12:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul333 View Post
    Thanks, thejkhan,
    I will look for it, 'Brillenhohle' is also not too far from Mulhlhausen, so they may of been around a while.

    14,780 YBP,would be a game changer, it would confirm Y H2 as one of the oldest European Haplogroups.

    I used to transport goods across Europe by HGV etc, a few years ago, and I know the Stuttgart area, and I often would overnight at a truck stop at nearby Gersthofen, Ausburg.

    Its trying to find a connection with one group of early Y H2, and give me an excuse to visit a site, hopefully things are beginning to move regarding the presence of Y H2.
    It's possible the H2 from Brillenhöhle is a dead end lineage. However it proves H2 was once widespread as hunter-gatherers before the Neolithic. The majority of modern European H2 probably comes from a few Neolithic lineages.

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    I agree, but it is a strange co-incidence that Y H2 has been found in the same area, many thousands of years apart.
    A recent opinion suggests at least two separate groups of Y H2 existed in Europe during the Neolithic, one of which is from that Locality, and if Brillenhohle is unrelated, then there would be three confirmed movements of Y H2 into and throughout Europe.
    Last edited by Paul333; 06-03-2020 at 12:12 PM.

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    Dear Paul333, H-section of this forum is not so diverse, therefore do not clone threads,please.
    Same subject is in H-L901 in Ancient Europe and is active.
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    I agree, but it is a strange co-incidence that Y H2 has been found in the same area, many thousands of years apart.
    Did you pass BigY700? M9313 is one of unstable SNPs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    Dear Paul333, H-section of this forum is not so diverse, therefore do not clone threads,please.
    Same subject is in H-L901 in Ancient Europe and is active.
    I beg to differ.

    Y H2 P96, is not the same at all. It is completely separated from Y H L901,
    There are three separate main Y H Haplogroups as I understand, Y H1, Y H2, and Y H3, and therefore each Haplogroup should be treated as they are, much in the same way as others for instance R1b and R1a, which represent very different journeys, much in the same way here.

    There is still an uncertainty about Y H2, P96, and even opinions exist that it may be changed again and therefore its possible its Identity could even be moved again,and possibly even from the Y H tree.

    Recent information is making the possibility of Ancient Y H2, being very diveresd from, Y H1 and Y H3. Y H2 is confirmed in Paleolithic Europe, no sign of Y H1, and Y H3, its association clearly identifies a very old split, and separation from the other Y H haplogroups.
    Last edited by Paul333; 06-06-2020 at 07:37 PM.

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    Last edited by Paul333; 06-06-2020 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Double post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    Did you pass BigY700? M9313 is one of unstable SNPs.
    Not sure what you mean by your post, about Big Y700, but if you read my earlier posts about Y H2 and the SNP M9313, you will see Ive already queried the uncertainty about this, and tried to have this disscussed without success.

    I received a positive result for M9313 from Living DNA, It is I know representing more than one Haplogroup. It was looked into by another poster and he informed me it was representing Y H2a1. It is on ISOGG 2019/20, and the SNP Index, although its actual position on the YH2 tree is uncertain, as I understand. M9313 also represents Y-I S8522 in Europe, via SNP L801,etc, and is also stated as confirmed for Haplogroup Y-D1a2a.
    Last edited by Paul333; 06-06-2020 at 09:34 PM.

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