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Thread: Y-67 and Y-111 matches intepretation

  1. #71
    Suspended Account
    Virginia, USA
    British and Irish
    Y-DNA (P)
    mtDNA (M)
    Y-DNA (M)
    mtDNA (P)

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by C J Wyatt III View Post
    Yes, you are correct - I turned off the Y-12 notifications. They are not worth worrying about. A friend of mine who got into DNA testing before me said that a Y-12 match means that you are part of the human race. From what I have seen, I don't think he was too far off with his statement.
    I respectfully disagree, although maybe things have changed, since few people order just 12 markers these days.

    I have had matches that started out at the 12-marker level stay close when upgraded all the way to 111 markers and beyond, to the Big Y-700. Without the initial 12-marker test, I would have never found out about them.

    They are especially valuable if the match shares your surname or a variant of it.

    12 markers used to be a cheap way to get potential matches in the dna testing door.

    I don't ask every 12-marker match to upgrade; I try to use my best judgment as to which of them is potentially valuable. If a 12-marker match shares my surname or the most common variant of it, I bug the heck out of him and maybe even offer to pay for the upgrade. Since my haplotype cluster is apparently Welsh, a 12-marker match with another Welsh surname will also hear from me.

    So, I still get excited when I get notified of a 12-marker match.

  2. #72
    Gold Class Member
    Chicago, Illinois
    mixed European
    Y-DNA (P)
    Dad: R1b/L21/DF63
    mtDNA (M)
    Y-DNA (M)
    mtDNA (P)

    United States of America England Wales Sweden Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    You say that, but there was a clear geographic pattern in my matches by Y37, that has remained similar up to Y111. I would assume that Gwydion’s Y line has some sort of link with Continental Europe.

    I don’t think it’s normal to have matches in Europe if your family is not from there.
    Depends on how close. U152 indicates it more than the matches alone.

    And if we are talking Y-12, I think it's extremely common to have continental matches, as they can be extremely distant. My dad has Y-25s, even, that are quite different final subclades (my dad is a branch of L21, and some of the Y-25 matches are not). (My dad simply has very few Y-37 and higher matches.) I suspect his second and third closest Y-67 matches are an entirely different subclade too based on a common surname with them at Y-25 who hasn't tested to Y-67. They are distances of 6 and 7, so similar to the matches in question.
    Last edited by msmarjoribanks; 06-17-2020 at 02:07 PM.

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  4. #73
    Registered Users
    English, Irish, German
    Y-DNA (P)

    England Germany Netherlands France Ireland Switzerland
    There are three main factors that affect the number of matches that you will have:

    1) How prolific your predictable haplogroup is. Even most testers with English speaking ancestors will only have 10 to 20 at 1500 to 2500 YBP. It helps to be associated with lines that conquered/united their neighbors. I belong to R-L226 which is only around 1500 YBP and has over 1,200 known testers at Y37 or higher (eight of nine of the signature markers are found in Y37 markers). This line is connected to King Brian Boru of Ireland and his royal ancestors (started out in one Irish county and ended up with the entire island of Ireland (including Northern Ireland). His son even conquered small parts of England and Wales to keep those pesky Vikings from invading again. My mother's Brooks line is stuck in the early part of DF27 - not getting very far there.

    2) The geographical origins of your ancestry. The closer you are to UK/Ireland, the more that is being tested (with some notable exceptions). This is primarily driven by American testing and do not be surprised that your success varies directly on how many of these geographical origins by the numbers of immigrants from other countries - so England and Ireland dominate the sample sizes.

    3) The random statistical variation of YSTR markers. Some rolled the dice and got 11s & 12s (genetically isolated) while others rolled the dice and got 2s and 3s (abnormally high numbers of false positives matches).

    So my father's line was lucky and belongs to R-L226 which is the third largest predictable haplogroup in Ireland (way smaller than R-M222 who conquered the O'Briens and reigned longer) and just a little smaller than CTS4466 which is also from the powerful Eóganachta clan - also in southern Ireland. But random statistical variation of YSTR mutations is very present in L226 as well.

    My Casey surname cluster - very genetically isolated from other L226 testers with a signature of five Y67 mutations.

    Y111 matches - 10
    Y67 matches - 23
    Y37 matches - 26

    It actually misses a couple of known Casey testers at Y111 and Y67 - but the FTDNA match list works pretty good when you have genetic isolation

    Then you have the opposite - Donohoe/11144 who has a genetic distance of zero from the L226 at Y67 and only three at Y111.

    Y111 - 58 matches
    Y67 - 777 matches
    Y37 - 789 matches

    This shows you how much statistical variation can play even within a very large sample size. Donohoe/11144 has no Y67 mutations during the last 1500 years (ignoring CDY markers).
    Last edited by RobertCasey; 06-17-2020 at 02:11 PM.

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  6. #74
    Registered Users
    Northern Ireland
    Northern Irish
    Y-DNA (P)

    Northern Ireland Ireland Scotland
    I believe I have high matches due to a common/similar migration patterns as colonial Americans. They moved from Scotland to Ulster at the same time as Scotland/Ulster to America.

  7. #75
    Registered Users
    Mostly Dutch

    Last edited by Pylsteen; 06-25-2020 at 05:22 AM.

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