Page 26 of 32 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast
Results 251 to 260 of 320

Thread: South Asians with Turkish/Turkic/Mongol descent thread

  1. #251
    Registered Users
    Posts
    879
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    Interesting! Are there any autosomal results available of these Kurds?

    The reason why I don’t/didn’t think the South Asian was linked to some Western Iranic influence, is the Gedrosia/Baloch component in my mom’s results being rather low (even for Turkish standards, let alone Kurdish/Iranian).
    I suggest that you start a new thread regarding this in autosomal section and in western Asia section.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....h-Asian-groups

    https://ahvalnews.com/turks/dna-base...ir-turkishness

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jatt1 For This Useful Post:

     Ashina (03-01-2021),  laltota (03-01-2021)

  3. #252
    Registered Users
    Posts
    77
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-A12338>FT303173
    mtDNA (M)
    C4a1a4a*
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a8a, U4a2b

    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    I suggest that you start a new thread regarding this in autosomal section and in western Asia section.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....h-Asian-groups

    https://ahvalnews.com/turks/dna-base...ir-turkishness
    Once I get a better understanding of my mom’s results, I might open a separate thread regarding Anatolian Turks with Mughal (or other types of South Asia-related) ancestry. But honestly, that second link. I can not believe that we still have to deal with people trying to delegitimize our identity/ethnicity. It’s an article from 2019 even.. I thought we were over this bs.

    Also, commercial/home based DNA testings is not banned in Turkey??
    Last edited by Ashina; 03-01-2021 at 06:30 AM.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ashina For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (03-01-2021),  misanthropy (03-07-2021)

  5. #253
    Registered Users
    Posts
    768
    Sex
    Location
    London, UK
    Ethnicity
    Bihari, UPite and Bengali
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    O2a1c-JST002611
    mtDNA (M)
    M6a1a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1a-Z93, R-M560

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Nawabs of Awadh were J2a, but R1a, R1b, J1, N, O, Q, C are all realistic candidates
    Both the Nawabs of Awadh and the Qutub Shahis were descended from the Qara Qoyunlu.

  6. #254
    Registered Users
    Posts
    547
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Awadhi
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2- (J-Z6082)
    mtDNA (M)
    M3d1a

    My mom get's several Anatolian/Turkish results on her Harappa Oracles.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 37.17
    2 Baloch 33.06
    3 Caucasian 11.01
    4 NE-Euro 7.78
    5 Mediterranean 3.14
    6 American 2.44
    7 Siberian 2.41
    8 SE-Asian 0.87
    9 SW-Asian 0.86
    10 NE-Asian 0.67
    11 Papuan 0.57
    12 Pygmy 0.02

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 up-muslim (harappa) 3.77
    2 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 7.43
    3 punjabi (harappa) 7.64
    4 bihari-muslim (harappa) 7.71
    5 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 7.93
    6 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 7.96
    7 up-brahmin (harappa) 7.96
    8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 8.35
    9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 8.67
    10 kashmiri (harappa) 8.75
    11 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.83
    12 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 8.87
    13 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 8.91
    14 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 8.92
    15 nepalese-a (xing) 9.33
    16 vaish (reich) 9.93
    17 cochin-jew (behar) 10.01
    18 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 10.35
    19 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 10.4
    20 maharashtrian (harappa) 10.54

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 83% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17% turk (behar) @ 2.24
    2 82.9% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.1% turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) @ 2.32
    3 82.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.3% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) @ 2.35
    4 82% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 18% turkish (harappa) @ 2.37
    5 82% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 18% azeri (harappa) @ 2.39
    6 77.9% ap-brahmin (xing) + 22.1% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.63
    7 80.7% gujarati (harappa) + 19.3% turk-aydin (hodoglugil) @ 2.72
    8 81.9% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) + 18.1% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.74
    9 82.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.5% turk-aydin (hodoglugil) @ 2.79
    10 82% meghawal (reich) + 18% turk-aydin (hodoglugil) @ 2.8

    11 95.3% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.7% irula (xing) @ 2.81
    12 65.1% kashmiri (harappa) + 34.9% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 2.81
    13 95.5% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.5% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.86
    14 84.8% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 15.2% armenian (behar) @ 2.87
    15 82.9% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.1% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.89

    16 93.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 6.6% chenchu (reich) @ 2.92
    17 80.4% tn-brahmin (xing) + 19.6% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.94
    18 93.8% up-muslim (harappa) + 6.2% tn-dalit (xing) @ 2.94
    19 93.9% up-muslim (harappa) + 6.1% mala (reich) @ 2.95
    20 95.8% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.2% paniya (chaubey) @ 2.95

  7. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to subzero85 For This Useful Post:

     Ahmed Ali (03-01-2021),  Ashina (03-01-2021),  deuterium_1 (03-01-2021),  Jatt1 (03-01-2021),  laltota (03-06-2021),  MonkeyDLuffy (03-07-2021),  royaljoker (03-01-2021),  Sapporo (03-09-2021)

  8. #255
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,376
    Sex
    Location
    Chicago
    Ethnicity
    Baloch Kashmiri Uzbek Kho
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y17491 > R-YP4858
    mtDNA (M)
    A8a

    Pakistan United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    My mom's slightly higher South Asian admix and low Gedrosia makes me think that she has a connection to South Asia too. Her SA is around 3.5%, while her Gedrosia is about 11%. It's also important to note that she got the SA mostly from her mother, making my grandma around 5% South Asian. Turks rarely score higher than 2-3% SA, but when they do, the South Asian usually goes hand in hand with higher Gedrosia.

    I wonder if her South Asian admix is linked to her Central Asian ancestors (Mughal connection?) or if there is some Dom or Romani admix somewhere down the line. Has anyone got an idea what an elevated South Asian score in conjunction with low Gedrosia could indicate? She also has some South Asian matches @ gedmatch, while I have not spotted one South Asian match in the rest of my relative's results.

    Actually, I just noticed that one of them is a relative of a user I spotted on here: Khanbadoshi? And he is part Uzbek. Interesting.
    What is even more interesting, the person you matched with isn't related to my Uzbek side... this is my first cousin from my father's side. However, he and his mother both get a significant amount of Afghan and Turkic matches. What exactly the connection, I can't say. Is this the only relative of mine you are matching?
    In terms of South Asian and Turkish connections, the only thing I can think of in recent history is intermarriage between Mughal/Hyderabadi aristocracy and Ottoman aristocracy. I know of a few examples of this. Possible could be soldiers, government officials stationed in south asia directly in some agreement or exchange; or stationed in Ottoman era possession which has some populace with a degree South Asian admixture ie. gulf port cities; maybe even due to some connection in Mecca or Medina, as some south asians have been settled there a while. Another off-chance scenario is WW1 posting. British Indian and Ottoman postings could be an explanation.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 03-07-2021 at 07:49 AM.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




  9. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to khanabadoshi For This Useful Post:

     Ahmed Ali (03-07-2021),  AlluGobi (03-07-2021),  Amber29 (03-07-2021),  Ashina (03-07-2021),  deuterium_1 (03-07-2021),  Jatt1 (03-07-2021),  laltota (03-07-2021),  MonkeyDLuffy (03-07-2021),  parasar (03-07-2021),  subzero85 (03-07-2021)

  10. #256
    Registered Users
    Posts
    77
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-A12338>FT303173
    mtDNA (M)
    C4a1a4a*
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a8a, U4a2b

    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    What is even more interesting, the person you matched with isn't related to my Uzbek side... this is my first cousin from my father's side. However, he and his mother both get a significant amount of Afghan and Turkic matches. What exactly the connection, I can't say. Is this the only relative of mine you are matching?
    In terms of South Asian and Turkish connections, the only thing I can think of in recent history is intermarriage between Mughal/Hyderabadi aristocracy and Ottoman aristocracy. I know of a few examples of this. Possible could be soldiers, government officials stationed in south asia directly in some agreement or exchange; or stationed in Ottoman era possession which has some populace with a degree South Asian admixture ie. gulf port cities; maybe even due to some connection in Mecca or Medina, as some south asians have been settled there a while. Another off-chance scenario is WW1 posting. British Indian and Ottoman postings could be an explanation.
    Actually, that might very well be it! I recently found out that my great-great-grandfather on my maternal side was the general commander of the gendarmerie in my city during the 1850’s. There is also a brief mention of him in this paper (Vezir Aga, see SS below). He came from a pretty notable family apparently and many relatives from that side held high positions in the Empire. The connection to this great-grandfather is also confirmed by official government papers. So I wouldn't be surprised if one of his ancestors earlier was positioned elsewhere in the Empire and married locally etc.. I mean, it's all speculations obviously, but it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

    I don't think I matched other relatives of yours, but I also didn't really check thoroughly. I just skipped over the South Asian looking matches over 10 cm.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ashina; 03-07-2021 at 12:41 PM.

  11. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ashina For This Useful Post:

     AlluGobi (03-07-2021),  Jatt1 (03-07-2021),  khanabadoshi (03-07-2021),  laltota (03-07-2021),  MonkeyDLuffy (03-07-2021),  subzero85 (03-07-2021)

  12. #257
    Registered Users
    Posts
    219
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    Actually, that might very well be it! I recently found out that my great-great-grandfather on my maternal side was the general commander of the gendarmerie in my city during the 1850’s. There is also a brief mention of him in this paper (Vezir Aga, see SS below). He came from a pretty notable family apparently and many relatives from that side held high positions in the Empire. The connection to this great-grandfather is also confirmed by official government papers. So I wouldn't be surprised if one of his ancestors earlier was positioned elsewhere in the Empire and married locally etc.. I mean, it's all speculations obviously, but it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

    I don't think I matched other relatives of yours, but I also didn't really check thoroughly. I just skipped over the South Asian looking matches over 10 cm.
    Depending on how distantly you are related to user Khanabadoshi and where you ancestors were stationed. Persian emperors have a long history of forcefully relocating tribes from east to west and vice versa and for them to sometimes go back like after the death of Nadir Shah. I believe something similar had happened to the Kurdish tribe of Ali Mardan Khan. His father's tribe had been relocated to the eastern side of the empire. After Nadir Shah's death and the general upheaval that existed before the Qajars. Many tribes rebelled holding old grudges and some relocated back see Thamasnama for the upheaval in Nadir Shah's time.

    Also if an officer under Nadir Shah invaded India, took as ransom some local girl and had children. Then it could possibly be a source of Indian DNA. Bare mind that Ganj ali Khan, father of Ali Mardan Khan had participated in campaigns all over Iran, from Balochistan to Georgia. And the taking of concubines was very standard practice. So its not a slim likelihood.

    But depending on your centimorgans, how many generations you can estimate as being the MRCA and etc. If it all hints to a post-1800 era connection (judging that by considering that Shah Zaman's invasion would be the last and so his Qizalbash would be the last West Asians invading India) then the above is quite unlikely. And it would be more likely to have a colonial connection.

    Some of my own ancestors had been posted in Egypt and Anatolia. They participated in the Urubi revolt of Egypt, the Deriwsh War (then considered to be a part of eygpt) and the Mesopotamia campaign (the Battle of Kut al Amarah) and came back heavily decorated. In fact a family member was taken as a Pow in the battle of Kut al amarah but returned.

    My own my heritage website shows me as matching some turks, and I have no way of explaining it. Those matches come literally at the bottom of my match list on the last page of my heritage.

  13. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to royaljoker For This Useful Post:

     Ahmed Ali (03-07-2021),  AlluGobi (03-07-2021),  Ashina (03-07-2021),  khanabadoshi (03-07-2021),  misanthropy (03-07-2021)

  14. #258
    Registered Users
    Posts
    77
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-A12338>FT303173
    mtDNA (M)
    C4a1a4a*
    mtDNA (P)
    M1a8a, U4a2b

    ^
    Not sure what you mean with ‘Persian’, but I am directly linked to Nader Shah’s and other Turkish tribes that took part in the establishment of the Safavid and Afshar Empire on my paternal side (mostly Varsak, but also Afshar via my paternal great-grandmothers). I also have oral stories about originating from Khorasan on that side of the family, including matches from ‘Rezavi Khorasan’ in 23andme. Though, the matches mentioned here are via my maternal grandmother, and her side has no recollection to any tribal history what so ever. The only legacy that continues on that side is that of our great-great-grandfather (the one mentioned in my previous post).

    (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Kemah
    We lost, but the commander on the Safavid side belonged to my tribe for example.)
    Last edited by Ashina; 03-07-2021 at 05:10 PM.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ashina For This Useful Post:

     khanabadoshi (03-07-2021),  subzero85 (03-23-2021)

  16. #259
    Registered Users
    Posts
    219
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    ^
    Not sure what you mean with ‘Persian’, but I am directly linked to Nader Shah’s and other Turkish tribes that took part in the establishment of the Safavid and Afshar Empire on my paternal side (mostly Varsak, but also Afshar via my paternal great-grandmothers). I also have oral stories about originating from Khorasan on that side of the family, including matches from ‘Rezavi Khorasan’ in 23andme. Though, the matches mentioned here are via my maternal grandmother, and her side has no recollection to any tribal history what so ever. The only legacy that continues on that side is that of our great-great-grandfather (the one mentioned in my previous post).

    (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Kemah
    We lost, but the commander on the Safavid side belonged to my tribe for example.)
    By Persian, I mean emperors of Persia. Regardless of their ethnic origins.

    I'm also related to the Safavi Emperors through Shah Thamasp II and we have had a match with someone surnamed Afshar along with a few safavi princes, my own ancestry with the Mughal Emperors (as recent as the beginning of the 20th century a direct ancestor of mine married a imperial princess who was a grandaughter of Shahzada Dara Bakht, a crown prince and son of the last Indian Emperor) means that Safavi ancestry is pretty much a given anyway. In hindsight that could be the source. But my turkish matches seem to be families of farmers who have had no notable family history.

    A little off topic, but despite member of my family participating in those campaigns our family is extremely pro-ottoman to this day. Originally my ancestor was re-assured in WW1 that he would not be deployed to the ottoman territories and indeed initially he was sent to German East Africa. Where he served for a bit before being sent to Mesopotamia where he ended up as a turkish prisoner. He returned extremely annoyed and no one had anything to do with the army again. Plus our family never really gave up on the Khalifat movement that started in India. We supported it in the beginning and even up until now, family members locally still campaign for ottoman restoration. Its often joked that our family is more pro-ottoman then the ottomans themselves ahaha. Though I'm aware that most turks view the ottomans are traitors.
    Last edited by royaljoker; 03-07-2021 at 05:32 PM.

  17. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to royaljoker For This Useful Post:

     Ashina (03-11-2021),  Kapisa (03-07-2021),  khanabadoshi (03-08-2021),  misanthropy (03-07-2021),  subzero85 (04-12-2021)

  18. #260
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    8,152

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    ^
    Not sure what you mean with ‘Persian’, but I am directly linked to Nader Shah’s and other Turkish tribes that took part in the establishment of the Safavid and Afshar Empire on my paternal side (mostly Varsak, but also Afshar via my paternal great-grandmothers). I also have oral stories about originating from Khorasan on that side of the family, including matches from ‘Rezavi Khorasan’ in 23andme. Though, the matches mentioned here are via my maternal grandmother, and her side has no recollection to any tribal history what so ever. The only legacy that continues on that side is that of our great-great-grandfather (the one mentioned in my previous post).

    (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Kemah
    We lost, but the commander on the Safavid side belonged to my tribe for example.)
    There is something to that Afshar connection perhaps, though in this case you do mention the matches are via the maternal line.
    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    ... A Turk in a FB group I was speaking to was asking about how he possibly got an estimated South Indian ancestor on the 23andme timeline and he also got two Indian matches for his relatives. His ancestry is 1/4 Afshar, so he was speculating whether Afshar dynasty descendants ended up in South India and whether any of those later descendants with that ancestry mixed with South India settled in Turkey later on. I do know that descendants of royals such as the Nizams did settle in Turkey later on, so I wouldn't be surprised.
    Attachment 38501
    See also the shared Y-Q line:
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y16849/

    Swat Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    ... Swat valley that predates the historical Arab and Turki movements into South Asia ...
    M30g Q1a1b1 1000-800 BCE I12134 Q1a1b1-M25>L712>F4747>F5005*
    Kokcha 3
    Quote Originally Posted by Afshar View Post
    I8506 1738-1623 calBCE (3375±20 BP, PSUAMS-5275) Steppe_MLBA_oBMAC Uzbekistan T Q1a1b1 belongs also to the same clade. Probably the same line
    Last edited by parasar; 03-07-2021 at 06:53 PM.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     Ashina (03-11-2021),  tipirneni (03-07-2021)

Page 26 of 32 FirstFirst ... 162425262728 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 02-28-2021, 07:06 AM
  2. Replies: 70
    Last Post: 01-13-2019, 06:51 PM
  3. HV in South Asians?
    By Reza in forum HV
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-09-2018, 05:21 PM
  4. Turkic Linguistics thread
    By DMXX in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-14-2015, 07:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •