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    South Asians with Turkish/Turkic/Mongol descent thread

    This will be a thread dedicated to South Asians with Turkish/Turkic/Mongol descent as well as ancestry results of such people. In the grand scheme of things, based on the timelines of when such dynasties ruled in South Asia, which spans from roughly the 1200-1800s, as well as marrying into non-Turk South Asians for generations, such ancestry is likely a relatively rare foreign ancestry in South Asia in the present day, nonetheless.

    Typically when we think of Turkic ancestry in South Asia, it can be organized into the following:

    Ruling dynasties of Muslim empires – Ghaznavid, Tughluq, Mughal, Qutb Shahi, Asaf Jah dynasties, others.

    Descendants or close associates of said dynasties – Mughal descendants, Paigahs, etc.

    Ethnic groups – Hazara, Indian ‘Turks’, Rowthers

    Possible surnames – Mughal, Mirza, Baig (Bey), Turk, Ali Khan

    I will post a few examples of the above.

    Ethnic groups

    Hazara

    Location: Afghanistan (central)

    Reported origin: Unknown. Possibly a mix of Iranians, Turko-Mongols, and Mongols as a result of various waves of Turkic and Mongol invasions.

    Indian ‘Turks’

    Location: Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh

    Reported origin: The Turks of Uttar Pradesh claim descent from Ottoman Turks who settled in the region around the 1400s, while the Turks of Gujarat aka the Turk Jamat claim descent from Central Asian soldiers in the army of Alauddin Khilji.

    Rowthers

    Reported origin: Descendants of Seljuk Turks, Muslim Rajputs, Arab horse traders possibly from the 1200s.

    Location: Kerala, Tamil Nadu

    DNA results
    Where the tire meets the pavement. There are a lot of claims to Turkic ancestry, but we need DNA results, which would detect this ancestry only if it is recent enough.

    This is a 23andme of a Hyderabadi Indian. According to her comments on her reddit /r/23andme thread, her family migrated from North India and her paternal side originally was from Bukhara, Uzbekistan and lived in India for several generations. She mentioned her father got 40% Central Asian in his results. Her family was said to be tangential to the Mughals, filling roles such as scholars and playwrights. Note how her father's Y-DNA is reported to be same as Gengis Khan's (or what we think it is).



    We can use this thread to post more DNA results of South Asians with Turkic descent. It would give some perspective to the ethnic groups I mentioned above as well.
    Last edited by misanthropy; 06-11-2020 at 08:04 AM.

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    Do you have the Harappa results for either her or her father? I'd be really curious to see them or her family's G25.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Do you have the Harappa results for either her or her father? I'd be really curious to see them or her family's G25.
    Me and others previously asked for it, no dice. She joined this board at one point too after an invite.

    Btw, we can get khana in here, he has some Uzbek mixture after all.
    Last edited by misanthropy; 06-11-2020 at 08:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Do you have the Harappa results for either her or her father? I'd be really curious to see them or her family's G25.
    She was on Reddit. I don't remember who posted her results(maybe I did), but someone told her about this place. She posted a few times but didn't give out anymore details. I bet we could find many like her in Delhi/ Lucknow/ Hyderabad state. The issue is there is no way of getting their results in India. I have personally met a few people 1 using Turkiye as a last name, multiple Khan Pathans, some restaurant owners in old Delhi using Persian last names claiming they descended from Persian court/ cooks. These people are exceedingly rare among the folks that claim foreign ancestry but have none.

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    This is good too:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

    My uncle is related to the family of Mirza Aslam Beg, he belongs to the Mughals of Muslimpatti and tested positive for J-7706 which is upstream from J-Z40078.

    Mirza Aslam Baig was born in the small village, Muslimpatti,[9] in Azamgarh district, Uttar Pradesh in British India, to the Urdu-speaking family that was well known for its Mughal nobility, on 2 August 1931.[10][11]

    His father, Mirza Murtaza Baig, was an advocate and practicing lawyer who had hold a well known prestige and respected name in the law circles of the Allahabad High Court.[12] The Baig's family had traced a long ancestral roots of the Mughal Royal family who once were emperors of India from the early 15th century to the early 18th century
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Aslam_Beg

    As has been stated elsewhere in this forum, there are also Tarkhans in Punjab who claim Mughal descent but they are more local.

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    The Turk Jamat claim descent from Turk soldiers who served in the army of the Nawabs of Junagadh. They claim to be earliest Muslim settlers to the Sorath region of Kathiawar, and claim to have come from Central Asia as soldiers in the army of Alauddin Khalji. The community are still found mainly in the taluka of Verawal in Junagadh District. They are also found in the talukas of Keshod, Una, and Mandvi of Junagadh District. The community are Gujarati speaking, using the Kathiawari dialect.[2]
    Present circumstances

    The Turk Jamat have fourteen clans, the main ones being the Saraiki Turk they are khan(Living in District Rahim Yar Khan, Southern Punjab Pakistan), Darvesh, Simari, Mughal, Mori, Gori, Mirza, Shekhji, Gobi, Chauhan, Rathore, Selat, Agwan, Hala, Tajwani, Tavani, Kajal, Khokhar and Regowa. Among these the Mughal, Mirza and Selat are three numerically dominant sections. All these clans have equal status and intermarry. They are endogamous, and marriage is preferred with close kin, and they practice both cross cousin and parallel cousin marriage.[3]

    The community had traditionally served as soldiers in the armies of the various princely states in the Kathiawar Agency. They were and still are a community of small to medium sized farmers. A good many are also traders. Like other Gujarati Muslims, they have a caste association known as the Jamat, which acts both as a welfare organization and an instrument of social control.[4]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turk_Jamat

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turk_(caste)

    Bareilly/Rampur: It came as a surprise for the then Turkish ambassador to New Delhi, Hasan Gogus, when he received an invitation in 2005 from an NGO based in a Moradabad to attend a seminar for promotion of Turkish culture in the region. “The ambassador was amazed to learn that a large number of Turkish-origin people are still residing in rural parts of Rohilkhand region. When the next ambassador, Halil Akinci, visited us in 2007, we gifted him traditional Turkish handicraft items that we have been making here for centuries,” Maulana Mohd Ali, president of Turk Cultural Education Anjuman Islahi Society, said.
    According to historians, who have been conducting researches, collecting data on the basis of surnames, family genealogies, and various bodies like the Turk Cultural Education Anjuman Islahi Society, there are over 1.5 million descendants of Turks living in Rohilkhand and their large settlements are in around 900 villages of Amroha, Sambhal and Rampur.
    It is believed that Turks came to India during the Slave Dynasty. Its second king, Iltutmish (1211-1236), conquered Badaun and Aonla (Katehar) in Rohilkhand and Turks settled in the region in the time of Ghiyasuddin Balban (1266-86), who also served as deputy to Razia Sultan’s brother Nasiruddin Mahmud (1246-66). Balban made Badaun an important centre of his empire. Local historians, however, say that most of these Turkish-origin people are ignorant of their customs, traditions and languages. A few traits, though, can still be seen which connect them to the land of their forefathers. Like women in these households weaving baskets in their spare time, a custom still prevalent in Turkey. And big-sized rotis, which are identical to Mediterranean 'lavash', in their kitchen.
    Abhay Kumar Singh, professor of ancient history and culture at Mahatma Jyotiba Phule Rohilkhand University in Bareilly, said, “Hordes of Turks settled in this region during Balban’s reign. Prominent historians, like KA Nizami and AL Srivastava, have written about Turkish settlements in Rohilkhand.”
    Ahsan Ali, a retired school teacher of Turkish origin who has researched on Rohilkhand Turks for many decades, said, “After ascending the throne, Balban broke up the ‘Amir Chahalgani ’, a group of the 40 most important nobles in the court which was formed by Iltutmish. As a result, these nobles fled to different villages in Rohilkhand and settled down.” Ali added, “Even a book on Rampur history by Abdul Gafur Khan in 1904 mentions the name of over 50 villages where these Turks settled.”
    Ali said that Turks who settled here had come from Uzbekistan and Turkistan. “As Turks came to India in groups, they still live together in clusters in big-sized joint families in the region,” said Iftikar Hussain, head of a social organization working for welfare of these Turkish origin people.
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/49263392.cms

    They claim to be 11lakh strong. 1.1 million people.

    Information about the Pathans of UP-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathans_of_Uttar_Pradesh
    Last edited by agent_lime; 06-11-2020 at 08:56 AM.

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    Hi :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
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    I have Bukhari ancestry through this man: http://www.iranicaonline.org/article...l-haqq-dehlavi

    His ancestor Agha Mohammad Turk migrated to Delhi during the reign of Sultan Alauddin Khalji and was a commander in his army as the story goes.

    My cousin who is a direct paternal descendent of him has the Q-L275 haplogroup.

    I have also found the name "Shah Kaleem Ullah Jahanabadi" in my shajra, which lines up timeline wise with this man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_K...lah_Jahanabadi, and if the article is true then his grandfather, an architect of the Taj Mahal, was from Badakshan.
    Last edited by pakistani; 07-03-2020 at 05:26 PM.

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    I totally agree, would like to see some rowther results.
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