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Thread: South Asians with Turkish/Turkic/Mongol descent thread

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Recently returned from Pakistan. The highlight of my tour was by far the visit to my great great grandfather's final resting place. The whole place was steeped in Sufism, really quite beautiful. Sharing a few pics in case of interest. He was my paternal grandfather's paternal grandfather but we are unsure of his own ethnic background - hence how I got into DNA testing in the first place!

    Attachment 41354

    Attachment 41355

    Attachment 41356

    Attachment 41357
    Looks like a Dargah

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  3. #132
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    Where are you people getting all these matches, on 23andme, ancestory.com, or at gedmatch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Looks like a Dargah
    It is indeed, although in Punjab I've noticed they tend to use 'Darbar' or 'Asthana'.

    My family were Pirs/Shaikhs of the Chishty Order, historically, so I have kinda grown up with the shrine culture, qawwalis, poetry etc.

    It's partly the reason I thought my family had an Iranian link historically; almost all of our family manuscripts/traditions are in Persian. But I now know that was probably because Farsi was the lingua franca back then, as opposed to shining a light on our ethnic origins..
    Last edited by Ahmed Ali; 11-23-2020 at 06:58 PM.

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  6. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Where are you people getting all these matches, on 23andme, ancestory.com, or at gedmatch?
    All the ones I referenced in my comments were via 23andme

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  8. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    It is indeed, although in Punjab I've noticed they tend to use 'Darbar' or 'Asthana'.

    My family were Pirs/Shaikhs of the Chishty Order, historically, so I have kinda grown up with the shrine culture, qawwalis, poetry etc.

    It's partly the reason I thought my family had an Iranian link historically; almost all of our family manuscripts/traditions are in Persian. But I now know that was probably because Farsi was the lingua franca back then, as opposed to shining a light on our ethnic origins..
    Same here! My maternal side is descended from all these Sufis and saints, certain lines are Syed, they follow a blend of Qadri/Chisti orders and I’ve been to all those events since childhood. I still find it fascinating, particularly doing dhikr in a group. I think they have far roots scattered across Persia/Khorasan (Isfahan, Hamadan, Herat, maybe Bukhara) which might explain the Anatolian (part of Persian) and trace Central Asian components we get on these calculators. Edit: and yeah I feel I’m close to getting my mom tested, seems less reluctant and more curious now. Really want someone from that side tested.
    Last edited by misanthropy; 11-23-2020 at 07:49 PM.

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  10. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    Same here! My maternal side is descended from all these Sufis and saints, certain lines are Syed, they follow a blend of Qadri/Chisti orders and I’ve been to all those events since childhood. I still find it fascinating, particularly doing dhikr in a group. I think they have far roots scattered across Persia/Khorasan (Isfahan, Hamadan, Herat, maybe Bukhara) which might explain the Anatolian (part of Persian) and trace Central Asian components we get on these calculators. Edit: and yeah I feel I’m close to getting my mom tested, seems less reluctant and more curious now. Really want someone from that side tested.
    One of my supposed relatives was Allama Kamaluddin who was a disciple of Chiragh Delhi, he was also from the Chishti order and was a disciple of Nizamuddin Auliya who is more well known.

    Sheikhpur is a village of Saints, Sufees and Scholars. It is in Ballia district, Uttar Pradesh, India, (formerly in the District of Azam Garh, UP).

    Mohammad "One" was the son of Hazrat Abu Bakar who was made the governor of Egypt By Hazrat Ali Karam Allah wajho in his time. In his 13th generation, Hazrat Mohammad 3 S/O Sheikh Abdullah 2 Came from Egypt to Suharwarda in Iraq and settled there in 537 Hijra. Abu Fahas Umar Sheikh Shabuddin Born here in 539 Hijra. Suharwarda is situated on the mountaineous region leading towards Azerbaijan.

    He went to Baghdad at the age of eleven. This was the period of Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani after whose death he became the chief saint of this sufi branch. He is the descendant of Abu Bakar Siddique the 1st Caliph of Islam. In accordance with the historian Ibne Khalqan his family tree reads "Abu Fahas Umar bin mohammad bin Abdullh bin Mohammad Amuya bin Saad bin Hussain bin Qasim bin Alqa bin Nasar bin Maaz bin Abdr Rahman bin Qasim bin Mohammad bin Abu Bakar (1st Caliph of Islam)".

    Hazrat Shahabuddin's grand son Abdur Rahman migrated to Samnan near Sar Hind. In eight Hijra his son Allama Sheikh Kamaluddin came to Dehli in 8th Hijra for propagation of Islam and settled here after marriage with the eldest sister of Sheikh Naseeruddin (Chiragh Dehli decendant of Prophet's grandson Imam Hasan Razi Allah Anho). She was a pious women and a descendant of Hazrat Hasan Razi Allah anho. Her tomb is situated in Ajodhya and is famous with the name of "Maqbara of Bari Bua". Allama Sheikh Kamaluddin Died in 756 Hijra in Dehli and is buried in the Dargah boundary of Chiragh-e-Dehli.

    The grandson of Sheikh kamaluddin "Sheikh Mohammad urf Haji phool Shah" came to Jaunpur for tableegh and later went to Shahr-e-Kharid mohalla chak Haji during the period of Sultan Feroz Shah Tughlaq and finally settled down. This place is now known as Sheikh pur. He died in Sheikh pur in 861 Hijra. He was a great Soofi of his time. Many people accepted Islam on his hand.

    Decendant of Sheikh abdul Wahid ( Called Wahidi) and of Sheikh Maulana Mohammad Zahidi ( Called Zahidi) of Sheikhpur are spread over many places in the world. The famous poet Nashoor Wahidi is also the decendant of this tribe of Sheikhpur.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 11-23-2020 at 08:09 PM.

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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    One of my supposed relatives was Allama Kamaluddin who was a disciple of Chiragh Delhi, he was also from the Chishti order and was a disciple of Nizamuddin Auliya who is more well known.
    Hazrat Kamaluddin Allama is also in my family's shajrah! Amazing how a few of us on here are linked through the Chishtis.

    I believe our link with Hazrat is a 'farzand-i-jan' one though ie. 'spiritual descendants'/khalifas of the Shaikh as opposed to lineal biological descent. According to our tree, the Chishti Nizami lineage was preserved in Kamaluddin Allama's family for several generations before reaching Yahya Madani, Nizamuddin Awrangabadi, Fakhr-i-Jahan Dehlvi and then being trasmitted to Khawaja Noor Muhammad who brought it into Punjab in the 18th century.

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  14. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Hazrat Kamaluddin Allama is also in my family's shajrah! Amazing how a few of us on here are linked through the Chishtis.

    I believe our link with Hazrat is a 'farzand-i-jan' one though ie. 'spiritual descendants'/khalifas of the Shaikh as opposed to lineal biological descent. According to our tree, the Chishti Nizami lineage was preserved in Kamaluddin Allama's family for several generations before reaching Yahya Madani, Nizamuddin Awrangabadi, Fakhr-i-Jahan Dehlvi and then being trasmitted to Khawaja Noor Muhammad who brought it into Punjab in the 18th century.
    Yes I agree, it is unlikely I am lineally related to him either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    Same here! My maternal side is descended from all these Sufis and saints, certain lines are Syed, they follow a blend of Qadri/Chisti orders and I’ve been to all those events since childhood. I still find it fascinating, particularly doing dhikr in a group. I think they have far roots scattered across Persia/Khorasan (Isfahan, Hamadan, Herat, maybe Bukhara) which might explain the Anatolian (part of Persian) and trace Central Asian components we get on these calculators. Edit: and yeah I feel I’m close to getting my mom tested, seems less reluctant and more curious now. Really want someone from that side tested.
    Awesome. I'd be very interested to see the results of your maternal family members.

    From what my grandfather tells me, the Chishtis tended to be from the 'Islamic honorific lineages' until the 18th century. But then, with the disintegration of the Mughal empire, the leadership became diffused and locals tribes increasingly embraced the Chishti khanqashs in places like Punjab. Hence, for example, many of the most prominent Chishti saints in Pakistan have 'local' caste identities e.g. Pathan (Taunsa Sharif), Awan (Hafiz Jamal Multani; Sial Sharif as well), Rajput (Chishtian Sharif) and Koreja (KotMithan, Chachran Sharif etc). Whereas many of the older shrines in India (Ajmer, Dehli etc) revolve around Syed saints.

    In terms of admixture, I expected my grandfather to show some MENA or Central Asian admixture given his family traditions but it's very limited. Instead, he has a good dollop of EEF which could be attributable to an Anatolian or Mediterranean ancestor (thanks to users who have helped point me in this direction) as well as a disproportionate number of Afghan matches. My hunch is he had a Nader Shah or Durrani era Qizilbash Turkic ancestor who may have been admixed with something more western and somehow, bizarrely, this west med element managed to survive to this day..

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  17. #140
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    I too, have Chishti Sufis in my family tree

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah...lah_Jahanabadi

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