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Thread: South Asians with Turkish/Turkic/Mongol descent thread

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Is it true that the head of the misl Jassa Singh Ramgarhia in fact was a Jatt, I have heard of that but not sure if that is true?
    No, He was Tarkhan. The original founder of Ramgarhia misl was a Jatt. It is well documented and his decandants are still alive today.

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    One of my close relatives [trackable as relatives] on 23andme is mt-A4.
    Others: U2b2 [also my own maternal line], HV2, K1a1, U2c, M30b, U2b, M52'M58
    Another relative showed up on 23andme [And one more: mtDNA U2 from Pashchim Champaran, Bihar, India]
    Y-L657 which means likely xY7, xY6 and Y9+ like me.
    His mtDNA is M49 which was also seen in the Mitanni area.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770703/
    "Tell Ashara (ancient Terqa) and Tell Masaikh (ancient Kar-Assurnasirpal) Syrian archaeological sites, both in the middle Euphrates valley. Dated to the period between 2.5 Kyrs BC and 0.5 Kyrs AD the studied individuals carried mtDNA haplotypes corresponding to the M4b1, M49 and/or M61 haplogroups, which are believed to have arisen in the area of the Indian subcontinent during the Upper Paleolithic and are absent in people living today in Syria. However, they are present in people inhabiting today’s Tibet, Himalayas, India and Pakistan. We anticipate that the analysed remains from Mesopotamia belonged to people with genetic affinity to the Indian subcontinent since the distribution of identified ancient haplotypes indicates solid link with populations from the region of South Asia-Tibet (Trans-Himalaya)."

    Ancient Mesopotamian samples in blue:
    Last edited by parasar; 02-07-2021 at 06:09 PM.

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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Another relative showed up on 23andme [And one more: mtDNA U2 from Pashchim Champaran, Bihar, India]
    Y-L657 which means likely xY7, xY6 and Y9+ like me.
    His mtDNA is M49 which was also seen in the Mitanni area.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770703/
    "Tell Ashara (ancient Terqa) and Tell Masaikh (ancient Kar-Assurnasirpal) Syrian archaeological sites, both in the middle Euphrates valley. Dated to the period between 2.5 Kyrs BC and 0.5 Kyrs AD the studied individuals carried mtDNA haplotypes corresponding to the M4b1, M49 and/or M61 haplogroups, which are believed to have arisen in the area of the Indian subcontinent during the Upper Paleolithic and are absent in people living today in Syria. However, they are present in people inhabiting today’s Tibet, Himalayas, India and Pakistan. We anticipate that the analysed remains from Mesopotamia belonged to people with genetic affinity to the Indian subcontinent since the distribution of identified ancient haplotypes indicates solid link with populations from the region of South Asia-Tibet (Trans-Himalaya)."

    Ancient Mesopotamian samples in blue:
    So that would mean that R in Arabia probably came with the mittani. And a lot older than from recent trade. In which case the R-Y7 of the Shaibities could be mittani rather than from post adnanite trade. Also just to put it out there. Abraham (as -alayhi salam -peace be upon him for non muslim members) would be within that range of 2.5-0.5 kyrs BC IF the Shaibite R-Y7 came from Abraham rather than somewhere else. But this probably explains the subtle yet strong presence of R among arab tribes even Bedouins.


    Btw we have U2 in our family. (U2-T152C to be more specific). Do you know anything about it?

    We seem to have a mix of Muslim and Sikh X linked matches and a lot of european matches at the further levels. The person who has this is punjabi. Do you think the european matches are from an original european source. Or just something that worked it way into visiting europeans during the colonial era.

  6. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    No, He was Tarkhan. The original founder of Ramgarhia misl was a Jatt. It is well documented and his decandants are still alive today.
    I’m confused. Isn't the original founder of the Ramgharia Misl Jassa Singh Thoka (Ramgharia), so which Jatt founder do you mean?
    Last edited by desi; 02-09-2021 at 02:57 AM.

  7. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by desi View Post
    I’m confused. Isn't the original founder of the Ramgharia Misl Jassa Singh Thoka (Ramgharia), so which Jatt founder do you mean?
    No, Jassa Singh (Thoka) Ramgarhia wasn't the founder of Ramgarhia misl. He became the leader of it later.

    The founder of the group that would eventually become the Ramgarhia Misl was Khushal Singh of Guga village near Amritsar. Khushal Singh was succeeded by, Nand Singh Sanghania who belonged to village Sanghani near Amritsar. After his death he was succeeded by a much more enterprising and valiant man, Jassa Singh Ramgarhia (1723-1803), under whose stewardship the band assumed prominance and the name of the Misl. The name Ramgarhia was adopted after winning a major battle near the village of Ramghar.

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  9. #186
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    I have a DNA relative with M49 but they are Indo-Caribbean.

  10. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    No, Jassa Singh (Thoka) Ramgarhia wasn't the founder of Ramgarhia misl. He became the leader of it later.
    Interesting, learned something new. So apparently it was just one misl under the Singhania, referred to as the Kanhaiya Misl. It's only after when Jassa Singh bailed them out in the Ram Rauni siege that they bifurcated and he renamed it the Ramgharia Misl. No wonder the Kanhaiya Misl had its issues with the Ramgharia Misl when they outgrew them:

    Screenshot 2021-02-09 at 2.38.11 PM.png
    Last edited by desi; 02-09-2021 at 07:46 PM.

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  12. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by desi View Post
    Interesting, learned something new. So apparently it was just one misl under the Singhania, referred to as the Kanhaiya Misl. It's only after when Jassa Singh bailed them out in the Ram Rauni siege that they bifurcated and he renamed it the Ramgharia Misl. No wonder the Kanhaiya Misl had its issues with the Ramgharia Misl when they outgrew them:

    Screenshot 2021-02-09 at 2.38.11 PM.png
    Yea the achievements of Ramgarhia misl is downplayed a lot by historians, not to mention some downright refuse to address Jassa Singh Ramgarhia as a king. The Ahluwalia misl did not face such rejection, and Jassa Singh Ahluwalia is awarded with title of Sultan-ul-Quom Nawab Jassa Singh Ahluwalia.

    Not to mention how badass it was when Ramgarhia won Delhi, put Khalsa flag on Red Fort and dragged the Mughal Throne of Aurangzeb to Amritsar. Chad move.

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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Yea the achievements of Ramgarhia misl is downplayed a lot by historians, not to mention some downright refuse to address Jassa Singh Ramgarhia as a king. The Ahluwalia misl did not face such rejection, and Jassa Singh Ahluwalia is awarded with title of Sultan-ul-Quom Nawab Jassa Singh Ahluwalia.

    Not to mention how badass it was when Ramgarhia won Delhi, put Khalsa flag on Red Fort and dragged the Mughal Throne of Aurangzeb to Amritsar. Chad move.
    When did the Sikh Misls seize control of the Sindh Sagar including Pothohar (Attock) and Jech Doaba. Was it post 1760 Battle of Sialkot and which Misl controlled these areas before Ranjit Singh? Also any suggestion on millitary history of the Misls and the later Sikh Empire.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    When did the Sikh Misls seize control of the Sindh Sagar including Pothohar (Attock) and Jech Doaba. Was it post 1760 Battle of Sialkot and which Misl controlled these areas before Ranjit Singh? Also any suggestion on millitary history of the Misls and the later Sikh Empire.
    The battle of 1761. Khushwant Singh had mentioned the raids on Afghans after the battle, I think, in his History of the Sikhs. I had given the book to a friend from Lahore. Shall ask him to find that specific part from the book tomorrow. The Sikhs in the 1760's may not have incursions into much of Potohar, but only that stretch where they sought to chase away the Afghans, the South Western parts.

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