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Thread: South Asians with Turkish/Turkic/Mongol descent thread

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    I have shared my 23andMe and HarappaWorld results here: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post680412

    We are Urdu speakers
    OK Thanks, your results do show some More West Asian / Med influence compared to average UP, do you think your grand father from 1881 would a show a lot more West Asian/Med? did you guys mix with locals along the way?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    OK Thanks, your results do show some More West Asian / Med influence compared to average UP, do you think your grand father from 1881 would a show a lot more West Asian/Med? did you guys mix with locals along the way?
    I’m not entirely sure how my ancestors results would look. I know their grandparents’ names, etc. but as a lot of names are generic Muslim ones so it’s hard to say what specific ethnicities they were marrying in to. I imagine they would score closer Central Asian as a simple matter of being less removed from our ancestors who migrated here, but in terms of WENA it’s hard to say since I’m not sure if Arabs or others from the Middle East really married into the family (as said before due to names being generic) outside of the few branches I know of for certain.

    In terms of marriage, my ancestors seemed to marry either cousins or others of similar class i.e. "coworkers" in administrative positions in Delhi and the surrounding areas. I'm 100% sure there was mixing with locals, just by looking at my results and assuming my "foreign" ancestors would marry daughters of local converts, etc. Had there not been mixing with locals I think we would still see significant Turkic populations in the subcontinent. Take the Mughal emperors for example, they were initially Turkic but by the end of their reign they would be considered wholly Indian after centuries of intermixing.
    Last edited by pakistani; 07-05-2020 at 07:51 PM.

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  4. #23
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    What interests me is beyond my Bukharan ancestor who is the furthest documented ancestor I've verified here, my family's shajras trace his ancestry to a Turkic Sufi saint Ahmad Yasawi, and further back to Mohammed ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib, both of which are most definitely not true.

    Considering that my ancestor migrated to Delhi between 1296-1316 and died in 1338, meaning that he was definitely born after the Mongol conquest of Bukhara in 1220, and that his haplogroup was almost assuredly Q-L275, is it possible he was descended from Mongols? I haven't found much reading on the specific haplogroup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-L275 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L275/

  5. #24
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    I score this on my V4 chip, which amounts to over an eighth - so quite substantial (I am 40% South Asian)








    My mother scores this (She is 50% South Asian)




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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    My greatx4 grandfather on my Bukhari line with his sons and nephews in Delhi, 1881:

    Attachment 38259

    His grandson, my greatx2 grandfather, with his sons, nephew, and guards in Ajmer, ~1910:

    Attachment 38260

    The first photo is the oldest photo I have of any of my ancestors. My greatx4 grandfather's grandfather, i.e. my greatx6 grandfather, was the ataleeq (tutor) to a son of Shah Alam II.
    I have found the signatures of my greatx4 and greatx3 grandfathers in this document: https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/611920.pdf?seq=1

    It is interesting. While one side of my family continued to hold administrative positions under British rule, my greatx4 grandfather on a completely different branch was part of the 1857 rebellion and executed for it.

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    I have found the signatures of my greatx4 and greatx3 grandfathers in this document: https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/611920.pdf?seq=1

    It is interesting. While one side of my family continued to hold administrative positions under British rule, my greatx4 grandfather on a completely different branch was part of the 1857 rebellion and executed for it.
    My great grandmother's stepmother also had relatives who also participated in the 1857 rebellion and were executed for their role in it. They were originally from Mewat in Haryana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    My great grandmother's stepmother also had relatives who also participated in the 1857 rebellion and were executed for their role in it. They were originally from Mewat in Haryana.
    Thanks for sharing. My greatx4 grandfather and his son were both Pathan sepoys in the army. Greatx4 grandfather was hanged near Lucknow after the rebellion, thankfully his son managed to escape execution.

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  12. #28
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    What Y-DNA are we looking to capture this?

    Turkic Central Asians probably have large helpings of J2 and R1a, which intersects heavily with standard South Asians. I'd imagine certain C haplogroups that Hazara have in abundance.

    I have a Syed relative with C-K96 (UP/Hyderabad) as his paternal line and X2b1 as his maternal line.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    What Y-DNA are we looking to capture this?

    Turkic Central Asians probably have large helpings of J2 and R1a, which intersects heavily with standard South Asians. I'd imagine certain C haplogroups that Hazara have in abundance.

    I have a Syed relative with C-K96 (UP/Hyderabad) as his paternal line and X2b1 as his maternal line.
    I honestly don't know much about Central Asia or Turkic people. My cousin who's direct paternal line can be traced back to an ancestor from Bukhara who migrated to Delhi in the 1300s has the Q-L275 haplogroup

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  16. #30
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    Hey, I've posted this elsewhere, but just thought to share here too as relevant to the convo on haplogroups:

    I got my paternal grandfather's y-seq in late last week - he's J-Y182822 (MF1070+) which is downstream of J2a2*. It seems to be a minority clade found (so far) in two Russian tatars, an Iranian and one Pakistani Punjabi. There's not much data on it, but from what I've gleaned from others it *may* be a recent (e.g. Mughal era) arrival in the subcontinent, from the Turan area; although its very difficult to say atm with a TMRCA of 15,500 years ago!

    For context: Dada is Punjabi but claims his paternal gr. gr. grandfather was a migrant to the subcontinent. The story is that our ancestor, Mir Shihabuddin, was a scholar who came to the subcontinent at the invitation of a Mughal prince passing through. Have been trying to get to the bottom of the story for a while now - but the haplogroup discovery was handy for sure. I'd defo recommend y-dna testing for others with family stories of central asian/Iranian/Mughal descent!

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