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Thread: Trace Ancestry

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus191 View Post
    0.2% could be way back - 17th-18th century or before. Have you tried uploading to GEDMATCH to see what calculators there say, alternatively you could download Admixture Studio. Generally I think GEDMATCH calculators over estimate these trace regions but it will be interesting to see what they say for you.
    Since the 0.2% is such a small part of my DNA, I've gone on GEDmatch and went through relevant calculators using the Admixture by chromosome painting tool, to see if some type of population similar to that region appears consistently in the same place. The Ethiopian & Eritrean takes place in my 12th chromosome so I looked at that and first used African-targeted calculators such as puntDNAL k8b. Even though the calculator is meant for predominantly African ancestry, I still wanted to see what it would label that segment of my chromosome. In result, that chromosome had segments/spikes of Nilo-Saharan, Omotic, E_Benue_Congo & W Benue Congo (and most of the chromosome was filled with Western Semetic which is probably a substitute/closest reference population for my major European DNA in that chromosome). Similarly, on the puntDNAL K15 I also got consistent results: Omotic River and "Horn of Africa" appeared in the same place as the Ethiopian & Eritrean found in my 12th chromosome. I also tried to see if this was consistent with Eurocentric calculators like Eurogenes and some MDLP ones, and some of them were consistent while others were not and the ones that did indicate that region in the same chromosome had smaller segments than the African-based ancestry ones like puntDNAL & Ethiohelix. Here are some chromosome paintings below if you're interested

    23andme 12th chromosome (w/ E&E highlighted)
    ethiopianchromosome.png

    puntDNAL K8b
    puntDNALk8b.gif

    puntDNAL K15 (The lavender color represents Horn of Africa, The dark blue and purple also reps Omotic river and west Africa)
    puntDNALk15.gif

    MDLP K23 (Contains ancient populations and the light blue represents East Africa and baby blue represents Caucasian)
    MDLPk23.gif

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayetooey View Post
    You could try see if you have any DNA relatives on 23andme who match you on that section of the chromosome, then check your triangulated matches.
    I have like 1300 DNA relatives on 23andme, how do I find the specific ones that match that section?
    23andme v5.9 - 29.3% Scandinavian, 16.7% French & German, 0.7% Finnish, 12.5% Broadly Northwestern European, 32% Eastern European, 5% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.5% Italian, 1.9% Broadly European

    Paper Tree - 43.75% Swedish, 37.5% Eastern German, 6.25% Jewish, 12.5% Polish

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by btree View Post
    I have like 1300 DNA relatives on 23andme, how do I find the specific ones that match that section?
    It might be a bit tedious but you can download your ancestry composition and DNA relatives from 23andme. If you look at the ancestry composition download you can go down to the ethiopian population and see what the distances on the Chromosome.

    For example I have a bit of Chinese & South East Asian on chrom 6 at 90294088 to 107652029. crop.png

    With that information you can go to your DNA relatives download. You can sort the chromosome number column in order and in my case I would go down to chrom 6 and you can check the distances and the matching relatives have a link to there profile there.

    Attachment 38043

    You can see if the relatives in the download are found in the find relatives in common feature at 23andme. For example MM and JG match the segment in the download and they are in each others find common relatives and it says 'yes' they share dna.

    Attachment 38046

    Another option is the segment search at Gedmatch that is under the paid tier. You can search the exact area of the chromosome and it will list all the relatives you match on it and some of them even had family trees. You can get their kit number and put it in the the admixture calculators to get some clues.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Táltos; 08-28-2020 at 01:49 AM. Reason: removed matches' names

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  6. #14
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    I have something similar -- 0.2% Senegambian and Guinean. It's possible, and it persists even at the highest confidence level. In fact, at the 90% confidence level I get 80.2% NW Europe, 15.1% Broadly Europe, 4.5% unassigned, and 0.2% Senegambian and Guinean. Within the NW Europe I have percentages of British & Irish, French & German, Scandinavian, and a tiny bit of Finnish, but it's mostly 64.2 Broadly NW Europe.

    The trace region is supposedly on chromosome 8.

    I also have an Ancestry upload to 23andMe, and it gives me the same thing, except it becomes Broadly West African at the 90% confidence level.

    Seems reasonably likely, but for the fact that I don't get it anywhere else. 100% European (British Isles, Scandinavia, and Germany) at Ancestry, my parents have trace Asian, but not African on FTDNA, and at MH my parents and me all get some Asian, but no African at all. (Not that I think FTDNA or MH are all that reliable.)

    Even at Gedmatch (Eurogenes K13 and K15), none of us get any SSA, although if I do the chromosome breakdown I do get a bit of NE African on Chr 8, but not SSA. (My mom gets a tiny bit -- 0.3% SSA on 8, but less NE African on that one than I do.)

    I don't care one way or the other, but I'm curious if it's worth trying to figure out the source or if it's likely not real. If I only had the 23andMe I'd probably assume it was, despite the tiny amount. I'm planning to get my dad to do a 23andMe test when I next see him, but I can't test my mom as she's no longer alive.

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  8. #15
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    Trace ancestry may be interesting to know, but I am sceptical. Almost nobody knows his/her family tree so well to prove it. Since last update I have broadly Western Asian & North African and broadly Northern Asian.

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mildlycurly View Post
    Try the chromosome painter on GEDmatch. If the segment on 23andme ethnically corresponds to the segment on GEDmatch, then it's likely real.
    I had ancestry dot com do mine, will you send me a PM explaining how the GEDmatch chromosome painter works?

  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geborgenheit View Post
    Trace ancestry may be interesting to know, but I am sceptical. Almost nobody knows his/her family tree so well to prove it. Since last update I have broadly Western Asian & North African and broadly Northern Asian.
    This is true. Also, given my examples that I gave, involving illegitimate children of slaves or servants, such children would often likely end up in orphanages so any evidence of what had occurred would be lost forever. Even if, say they were brought up by the mother, or passed to a relative of the mother, the origins of the baby would likely be obscured. Whilst going through registers in England, I have found several instances of people from different parts of the world being baptised in the 18th and 19th century, such as India, Vietnam, China, and the Caribbean, sometimes it states they are servants, sometimes just that they were from xyz place. What is not clear to me is, once they were baptised Christians, how many often married and had children, or did they just stay in service for life. Definitely in the 19th century, people from more far flung parts of the world started to live more independently, especially in the cities such as London, one example is John Anthony, a Chinese Christian convert who looked after the accommodation for Lascars - mainly Indian and SE Asian sailors in London for the British East India Company

    http://jostamon.blogspot.co.uk/2008/...y-esquire.html

    https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...7-29#highlight

    a trial where he appeared as a witness where a prostitute and her madam stole a Chinese sailor's dollars
    https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...hina#highlight

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  13. #18
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    It is very common for populations to share SNP's to a small degree. These test are not streamlined to give you exactness and the degree of the results are not exact but the closest match. SNP's that are used in ancestry testing are used from panel groups which carry the most *common* maker within that group. Other markers are shared within groups, but it is supposed, if you actually have geographical ancestry (from East Africa case in point), there is a much higher chance you carry the *common marker* of the group and you should show some ancestry if genuine and within degree of testing parameters. Now, that common marker can be shared to a small degree in populations which can carry over as trace noise. So when you look at something like .02 (anything under 1%) is could be static and show up on any ancestry test and not be valid. If you see a small segment(s) at low confidence and they remain or expand in the highest is more telling. Many times, looking at .02, .06 can open up the door for many interpretations. Especially when they can't be verified or the results are presumed because someone "lived" by a group of people or they have a certain phenotype (i.e. cheekbones, lips etc.)

    If you can test a parent to see where it is coming from would be ideal, and ideally the parent would carry larger or more segments, especially sprinkled in the genome. Not always but very common.
    Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 08-25-2020 at 09:21 PM.

  14. #19
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    I have 0.3% Angolan and Congolese, always appears in all confidence levels, even at 90%, but in this level is called "Broadly Subsahara African". I have seen my DNA matches, I have some of them that triangulate in same chromosome segment (biggest segment shared have between 10 and 15 cM), which have subsaharian percentage. In GEDmatch with chromosome painting, I have verified this segment with subsaharan item in Eurogenes K15 calculator. So, as you have said in this thread, with the pertinent tools, I should take this result as a possible real value.

    As a curiosity, this cathegory keep in 90% confidence level in 23 andme, together with Spanish & Portuguese, Italian and Ashkenazi Jewish.
    Last edited by rober_tce; 08-26-2020 at 01:17 AM.
    23andMe: 99.4% Spanish & Portuguese, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 0.3% Trace Ancestry (0.3% Nigerian)

    My Heritage: 91.5% Iberian, 3.6% Ashkenazi Jewish, 2.7% Middle East, 2.2% Irish, Sccotish and Welsh

  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rober_tce View Post
    I have 0.3% Angolan and Congolese, always appears in all confidence levels, even at 90%, but in this level is called "Broadly Subsahara African". I have seen my DNA matches, I have some of them that triangulate in same chromosome segment, which have subsaharian percentage. In GEDmatch with chromosome painting, I have verified this segment with subsaharan in Eurogenes K15 calculator. So, I should take this result as a possible real value.

    This cathegory keep in 90% confidence level in 23 andme, together with Spanish & Portuguese, Italian and Ashkenazi Jewish.
    Given your ancestry it wouldn't be surprising. Please see this article as a place to start. There may be more recent papers relating to Spain out there, but I don't have the time currently to look for them.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1001373
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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