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Thread: okarinaofsteiner's East Eurasian GEDmatch megathread

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by SG_Jun View Post
    Honestly Zhihu or Tieba would be categorised as "junk forums" in my opinion lol almost no one takes these 2 forums seriously because it is full of trolls and misinformation, particularly with regard to anthropology or genetics. I am aware of northern Chinese calling other southerners (mainly Cantonese or Guangxi Han) 'monkeys', making reference to the looks of this particular criminal, Ma Jiajue from Guangxi. But personally having been on some WeChat groups full of northern Chinese, I have not been faced with the same discrimination; so its still a minority of people who are behaving like that I believe. Can't speak for on the ground experience because I've never lived in China myself.

    Han is honestly just a meta-ethnicity concept, sort of like 'Slavs' in Europe, there is a huge range of people who are now considered ethnically, culturally Han, but obviously Han from Guangxi and Han from Heilongjiang are not going to have the same genetic profile.
    Yep, no one should take those 2 forums seriously, I regard them as "Han nationalist trash bins".

    They sure love to use Ma Jiajue's image when dissing GX people, despite the fact that this guy was put to death by Chinese law enforcement nearly 2 decades ago. But honestly, it's not just this particular criminal, they're using the word monkey randomly on individuals of GX or GD origins on Chinese discussion boards.

    The reason you didn't experience this in that WeChat group was because 1. you aren't of Cantonese or GX origin, you're of Hokkien/Fujian origin. Although I'm aware that Hokkien people also carry some negative stereotypes and have been stigmatized by other Chinese to a certain extent, they are nowhere near as bad as the ones experienced by Cantonese and GX people. And 2. you are Singaporean and aren't a Chinese national. Chinese tend to be more polite and kind towards foreigners than towards other Chinese nationals.

    Agreed with your thought on the Han. It's not really ethnically based, but more of a geopolitical convenient grouping, sort to speak.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNOPSC1b View Post
    Yep, no one should take those 2 forums seriously, I regard them as "Han nationalist trash bins".

    They sure love to use Ma Jiajue's image when dissing GX people, despite the fact that this guy was put to death by Chinese law enforcement nearly 2 decades ago. But honestly, it's not just this particular criminal, they're using the word monkey randomly on individuals of GX or GD origins on Chinese discussion boards.

    The reason you didn't experience this in that WeChat group was because 1. you aren't of Cantonese or GX origin, you're of Hokkien/Fujian origin. Although I'm aware that Hokkien people also carry some negative stereotypes and have been stigmatized by other Chinese to a certain extent, they are nowhere near as bad as the ones experienced by Cantonese and GX people. And 2. you are Singaporean and aren't a Chinese national. Chinese tend to be more polite and kind towards foreigners than towards other Chinese nationals.

    Agreed with your thought on the Han. It's not really ethnically based, but more of a geopolitical convenient grouping, sort to speak.
    Personally I think Teochews are subject to our own set of stereotypes in China which are distinct from the Cantonese, for example Teochews are great businessmen, love giving birth to a lot of children, dislike marrying outside of their own dialect group, have a strong sense of identity, like eating raw seafood (even though personally as a Teochew myself I've never had 生腌 which is raw marinated seafood, a dietary practice which has disappeared among overseas Teochews here in Singapore), sticking true to old Chinese traditions (particularly Taoism, which is true even for my family) and also having strong gender biases.

    Hakka also have their own set of stereotypes, even though Teochews and Hakkas are also present in Guangdong province. You are right that some northern Chinese actually think Teochew women are pale, beautiful and embody many "feminine traits" like taking care of the family, rather than being "monkey looking".

    In a society like Singapore where there are many Chinese of different backgrounds all mixed together, I would say the Cantonese are not even that distinctive looking compared to Minnan Chinese, it is usually difficult to even tell unless you look at the romanisation of surname. In Hong Kong (and therefore Cantonese popular media) there are also plenty of Teochews in business and the entertainment scene.
    Last edited by SG_Jun; 10-05-2022 at 06:50 AM.
    Y-DNA haplogroup: N-M231-Z4762-F2905-Z4784-Y23789-Y139167-MF28233
    N1b1
    Bianbian, Shandong Province, China: 9500 ybp
    Houli Culture, Boshan, Shandong Province, China: 8200 ybp
    Houli Culture, Xiaojingshan, Shandong Province, China: 7800 ybp
    Lower Xiajiadian Culture, Erdaojingzi, Inner Mongolia, China: 4000 ybp

    MTDNA: R11b

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  4. #333
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    I have browsed sites like Tieba in the past, while they do reserve the most vitriolic hatred for people from Guangdong or Guangxi, they just flat out dislike or harbor prejudices towards people who aren’t from northern China or Dongbei over the most trivial of reasons. This is also why I don’t identify with the ‘Han’ group, since most who identify with that label are almost always northerners. Saying that one is proud to be ‘Han’ is a lot like saying one is proud of being a ‘White American’. Let’s just say that interacting with such individuals left a bad taste towards interacting with other northerners in the future. Not saying they are all like this but such behavior can turn into hypocrisy in the future. And this attitude often seeps into the ‘Hanfu revivalist’ movements which are another vehicle for racism and bigotry within China.

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  6. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goujian View Post
    I have browsed sites like Tieba in the past, while they do reserve the most vitriolic hatred for people from Guangdong or Guangxi, they just flat out dislike or harbor prejudices towards people who aren’t from northern China or Dongbei over the most trivial of reasons. This is also why I don’t identify with the ‘Han’ group, since most who identify with that label are almost always northerners. Saying that one is proud to be ‘Han’ is a lot like saying one is proud of being a ‘White American’. Let’s just say that interacting with such individuals left a bad taste towards interacting with other northerners in the future. Not saying they are all like this but such behavior can turn into hypocrisy in the future. And this attitude often seeps into the ‘Hanfu revivalist’ movements which are another vehicle for racism and bigotry within China.
    Personally I don't have an issue with identifying as Han, or the Hanfu revivalist movement. As aforementioned Han is more of a cultural identity, there is nothing wrong with being proud of one's culture. You can't say that modern Zhejiang or Fujian people are pure descendants of the Yue or Minyue kingdom either, because they are not - - they are a mix of both Chinese from the Central Plains (northern China) and the local Yue / Minyue populace.

    Han culture has indeed been decimated by 300 years of Manchu rule during the Qing Dynasty, and I don't see Hanfu revival movement as being anything sinister beyond wanting to have a national costume of our own that is not qipao.

    Of course any individual would have multiple layers of identity. Eg for myself I would identify myself as Singaporean first, Teochew / Hokkien / Minnan second and lastly Han. I still identify as Han but it is not "first priority".
    Last edited by SG_Jun; 10-05-2022 at 07:59 AM.
    Y-DNA haplogroup: N-M231-Z4762-F2905-Z4784-Y23789-Y139167-MF28233
    N1b1
    Bianbian, Shandong Province, China: 9500 ybp
    Houli Culture, Boshan, Shandong Province, China: 8200 ybp
    Houli Culture, Xiaojingshan, Shandong Province, China: 7800 ybp
    Lower Xiajiadian Culture, Erdaojingzi, Inner Mongolia, China: 4000 ybp

    MTDNA: R11b

  7. #335
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    Hanfu looks great though. Personally, I never understand Asians who wear hoodies regularly but somehow are more prejudiced about subcategories of traditional Asian clothes.

  8. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skhznamk View Post
    Hanfu looks great though. Personally, I never understand Asians who wear hoodies regularly but somehow are more prejudiced about subcategories of traditional Asian clothes.
    Hanfu is a harmless fashion choice but some of the promoters of this trend has hn supremacy wibes.

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  10. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songtsen View Post
    Hanfu is a harmless fashion choice but some of the promoters of this trend has hn supremacy wibes.
    Who cares? Are you gonna stop wearing a t-shirt because of some Spanish says something childish?
    Same for languages/dialects, Iím using English right now because itís convenient and can communicate with people from various places. Go ahead and call me Anglo-colonized or whatever. As of now, English is the best tool for communication and thatís why we are using it right now. I also donít mind learning Mandarin if I will ever work in China or has to communicate with Chinese people since billion of them are using it.

    The childish divide wonít go away if both sides just keep being petty. If you think you are better than them, prove it. If not, improve yourself? Itís that simple.

  11. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skhznamk View Post
    Who cares? Are you gonna stop wearing a t-shirt because of some Spanish says something childish?
    Same for languages/dialects, I’m using English right now because it’s convenient and can communicate with people from various places. Go ahead and call me Anglo-colonized or whatever. As of now, English is the best tool for communication and that’s why we are using it right now. I also don’t mind learning Mandarin if I will ever work in China or has to communicate with Chinese people since billion of them are using it.

    The childish divide won’t go away if both sides just keep being petty. If you think you are better than them, prove it. If not, improve yourself? It’s that simple.
    I agree but Hanfu today for many people means han pride, manchu hatred. I have no problem with hanfu as long as they dont make it a national dress.

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  13. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by SG_Jun View Post
    Personally I think Teochews are subject to our own set of stereotypes in China which are distinct from the Cantonese, for example Teochews are great businessmen, love giving birth to a lot of children, dislike marrying outside of their own dialect group, have a strong sense of identity, like eating raw seafood (even though personally as a Teochew myself I've never had 生腌 which is raw marinated seafood, a dietary practice which has disappeared among overseas Teochews here in Singapore), sticking true to old Chinese traditions (particularly Taoism, which is true even for my family) and also having strong gender biases.

    Hakka also have their own set of stereotypes, even though Teochews and Hakkas are also present in Guangdong province. You are right that some northern Chinese actually think Teochew women are pale, beautiful and embody many "feminine traits" like taking care of the family, rather than being "monkey looking".

    In a society like Singapore where there are many Chinese of different backgrounds all mixed together, I would say the Cantonese are not even that distinctive looking compared to Minnan Chinese, it is usually difficult to even tell unless you look at the romanisation of surname. In Hong Kong (and therefore Cantonese popular media) there are also plenty of Teochews in business and the entertainment scene.
    Yeah but those stereotypes are nowhere near as bad as the ones experienced by Cantonese and GX people. On Tieba I've only heard a lot of northerners praising Teochew women as pale and beautiful and Teochew people as true descendants of ancient Central Plains people. And some even link Teochew to northern nomadic peoples like Xianbei. In brief the image is definitely very different from Cantonese and GX people, and I don't think Hokkien/Teochew people are subject to any major prejudice or discrimination in China, unlike the Cantos and GX.

    Singapore is a very mixed place there're some Cantonese but the majority of the Chinese population in Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia are of Hokkien descent, so the Cantonese you see there are most likely mixed with Hokkien and other Chinese subgroups, that's why you don't find them distinctive. And yes the same thing can be said for HK, it's a very mixed metropolis. If you wanna find more exotic Canto appearances, you'd have to travel to Western GD and GX where there're fewer outside influences.

    Though I must say that I have nothing against the appearance of Cantos and GX people, on the contrary I find them quite good looking, especially the women. I definitely rank them above Hokkien and Teochew women. I like their large eyes and more defined facial features as well as longer and more gracile limbs, something not commonly seen on women from other areas of China. Due to their admixtures with Daic and SEA peoples, some of them can give out a slight Latina or South Asian vibe, which I find to be rather beautiful and exotic, in comparison to the pale bland traditional East Asian look.
    Last edited by MNOPSC1b; 10-05-2022 at 01:12 PM.

  14. #340
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    Everyone please stop posting about non-genetics related stuff in my megathread. Thanks.

    Hereís a Dongbei (Liaoning) Hui 23andMe result. Not posting in the Chinese GEDmatch thread because thatís for Han results
    https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/com..._northeastern/



    23andMe: 89.3% Northern Chinese, 0.1% Filipino/Austronesian, 8.7% Central Asian, 0.3% Bengali/NE Indian, 0.2% Broadly Central + South Asian, Trace 0.4% Eastern European, Trace 0.3% Cypriot.

    I also took wegene,23mofang and Yoogene dna tests in China.

    23mofang results: 63.9% Northern Han Chinese; 12.42% Southern Han Chinese; 2.34% Mongolian & Tungusic; 0.86% Broadly Chinese ; 10.48% North and South Korean; 1.66% Buryat; 3.94% British; 3.61% Eastern European; 0.79% Northern European

    Wegene results: 58.82% Northern Han Chinese; 24.21% Mongolian; 3.75% Tungusic; 3.30% Gaoshan; 4.77% Eygptian; 1.13% Ashkenazi Jewish; 1.02% British; 1.80% Kyrgyz; 1.13% Mayan

    Yoogene results: 43% Northern East Asia; 20% Southern East Adia; 8% Middle East; 7% Austrilian-Papuan; 6% Altay-Japan; 5% Central Asia & India; 5% Siberia; 4% Native American; 1% Niger-Congo.

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