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Thread: okarinaofsteiner's East Eurasian GEDmatch megathread

  1. #281
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    Amazing how large the boshan/bianbian component becomes in Korean/Japanese when you include it... and how Korean/Japanese don't need any west liao/WLR_MN component seemingly

    Considering how in the modern day there is some degree of inland/peninsular bifurcation in Shandong in all aspects, I would be curious to see how close a more peninsular (even closer to coastline than boshan/bianbian) ancient Shandong result would be to Koreans and Japanese (although currently it seems there is no autosomal DNA for such populations). Boshan/Bianbian usually aren't found too distant from WLR_MN, which corresponds interestingly to how modern Jilu/inland Shandong people could be grouped essentially with most of Hebei culturally/linguistically/genetically. But Jiaoliao Han are usually are seen as more distinct from Hebei. I wonder if this split within Shandong held in pre-Sinitic times as well, and if so, which "section" is closer to modern Koreans/Japanese...

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  3. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNOPSC1b View Post
    It's also interesting to note that a lot of the native ancestry of Southern "Han" and Southern Minorities came from Xitoucun_N with some coming from Vietnam_N as well. Xitoucun samples are from Neolithic Fujian, so this means that Daic peoples or Daic-related ancestry likely had a much longer presence in Southeastern and Far South China than anticipated, and shouldn't all be relegated to later rice farming expansions from the Yangtse region in Central China.

    And moreover, I see that Vanuatu_2900 BP related ancestry has been found among Northern Chines, certain Tungusic peoples, and Korean/Japanese, but not among the various peoples of Southern China. I don't have a clear explanation for this now, it could be the case that an Austronesian related people had spread rice-farming to Northern China and Korean/Japan, but it could also be a much more ancient connection, likely indicating the Coastal Ghost component among Northern East Asians.
    Xitoucun_N dates to around the same time when rice cultivation is thought to have spread to Lingnan from the Yangtze Basin (4000-5000 years ago), possibly a little later:

    Within Mainland Southeast Asia, rice was presumably spread through river trade between the early Hmong-Mien-speakers of the Middle Yangtze basin and the early Kra-Dai-speakers of the Pearl River and Red River basins, as well as the early Austroasiatic-speakers of the Mekong River basin. Evidence for rice cultivation in these regions, dates to slightly later than the Dapenkeng settlement of Taiwan, at around 3000 BC. Southward migrations of the Austroasiatic and Kra-Dai-speakers introduced it into Mainland Southeast Asia. The earliest evidence of rice cultivation in Mainland Southeast Asia come from the Ban Chiang site in northern Thailand (ca. 2000 to 1500 BC); and the An Sơn site in southern Vietnam (ca. 2000 to 1200 BC).[11][24] A genomic study indicates that rice diversified into Maritime Southeast Asia between 2,500 and 1,500 years ago.[19]
    I agree with your point on the rice farmer-like component in Northern Chinese, certain Tungusic peoples, and Koreans/Japanese being modeled as specifically Austronesian since these populations also have Coastal Ghost ancestry.




    @ph2ter Onge is much more similar to Hoabinhian than it is to AASI (it doesn't look any populations have any "Hoabinhian" that isn't soaked up by using Onge), but I guess you have to make do when there is no ancient population we can really use as a good proxy.

    The distribution of IRN_Shahr_i_Sokhta_BA2 (which is from the prehistoric easternmost edge of Iran near the borders with Afghanistan and Pakistan) suggests that it contains some AASI, and may be a half-decent proxy for the Indus Valley Civilization.

  4. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    It would be nice that you post here the references you wish to include into the spreadsheet. I added some of the references you asked:

    Thank you ph2ter.

    I do not use G25 habitually and am very unfamiliar with the tool, but can provide you with the population names, would this help?
    Do you mind running one last plot, with the following changes?

    Could you add the following populations?
    1. A population label under which Xiaogao, Xiaojingshan, Boshan, and Bianbian are all included, we can call this "CHN_Lower_YR_preNeolithic"
    2. A population label under which Shamanka_EBA, Lokomotiv_EBA and Kurma_EBA are all included, we can call this "Baikal_BA".
    3. Mongolia_North_N/Mongolia_N_North
    4. the Slab Grave genomes
    5. Russia_Siberia_Yenisei_EBA (BZK002 from Yu Cell 2020), we can call this "RUS_PreOkunevo"
    6. The Sintashta and Petrovka genomes from Narasimhan under one group label, we can call this "Steppe_MLBA"
    7. Afanasievo
    8. A population label under which Xitoucun, Xihe, Liangdao are all included, we can call this "CHN_SE_Coastal_Island_N"

    Could you remove the following populations?
    1. Lokomotiv_N
    2. MNG_East_N
    3. RUS_Progress_Vonyuchka_EN
    4. GEO_CHG
    5. CHN_Xitoucun_N
    6. CHN_Dushan_N

    Apologies if this takes too much time, but I have a hunch about how things may work out here.
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

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  5. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by okarinaofsteiner View Post
    Xitoucun_N dates to around the same time [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rice_cultivation#Southeast_Asia"]when rice cultivation is thought to have spread to Lingnan from the Yangtze
    I checked the age of Xitoucun_N and found that the age of the site is around 4,000 years ago, which is around the same time that rice cultivation had spread to Lingnan from the Yangtse region.

    However, judging from the descriptions I've found about this site on Chinese websites, the primary food source of the Xitoucun people still came from hunting and fishing, and I don't think large-scale rice cultivation has ever been discovered on this site. Hence it's likely that Xitoucun people represent a continuation of the earlier Neolithic peoples in this region, and not the new arrivals from Central China.

    Quote Originally Posted by okarinaofsteiner View Post
    I agree with your point on the rice farmer-like component in Northern Chinese, certain Tungusic peoples, and Koreans/Japanese being modeled as specifically Austronesian since these populations also have Coastal Ghost ancestry.
    That's not what I said, you misinterpreted me again. I never said it was definitely the case but only a possibility. So far we don't have conclusive evidence that it was an Austronesian-like population which brought rice-farming to Northern China, Korea, and Japan. The little Austronesian component that these populations have could be due to a much more ancient connection with Southern East Asians in the form of Coastal Ghost ancestry, which predates rice cultivation by a long shot.

    The thing is the spread of a certain culture may not coincide with movements of people from where that culture originated. It could be passed on and changed hands among various intermediate peoples before finally reaching its destination. A similar example would be the technology of chariot-making. It originated from West Asia among the Hittites or the Egyptians, but I don't think it was those people who brought chariots to Shang and Zhou era China. It had changed hands along the way multiple times. I think the diffusion of rice farming probably followed a similar pattern.

    Again, please refrain from projecting your wishful thinking or your subjective opinions onto our discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Thank you ph2ter.

    I do not use G25 habitually and am very unfamiliar with the tool, but can provide you with the population names, would this help?
    Do you mind running one last plot, with the following changes?

    Could you add the following populations?
    1. A population label under which Xiaogao, Xiaojingshan, Boshan, and Bianbian are all included, we can call this "CHN_Lower_YR_preNeolithic"
    2. A population label under which Shamanka_EBA, Lokomotiv_EBA and Kurma_EBA are all included, we can call this "Baikal_BA".
    3. Mongolia_North_N/Mongolia_N_North
    4. the Slab Grave genomes
    5. Russia_Siberia_Yenisei_EBA (BZK002 from Yu Cell 2020), we can call this "RUS_PreOkunevo"
    6. The Sintashta and Petrovka genomes from Narasimhan under one group label, we can call this "Steppe_MLBA"
    7. Afanasievo
    8. A population label under which Xitoucun, Xihe, Liangdao are all included, we can call this "CHN_SE_Coastal_Island_N"

    Could you remove the following populations?
    1. Lokomotiv_N
    2. MNG_East_N
    3. RUS_Progress_Vonyuchka_EN
    4. GEO_CHG
    5. CHN_Xitoucun_N
    6. CHN_Dushan_N

    Apologies if this takes too much time, but I have a hunch about how things may work out here.
    I can't find Xihe and Xiaogao



    Code:
    CHN_Dzungaria_EBA,0.109953,0.0056868,0.053023,0.1229994,-0.0551488,0.0408298,-0.0135838,-0.016984,-0.0438088,-0.0736962,0.0048718,-0.0019782,0.0113872,-0.0416996,0.03317,0.01607,-0.0124386,-0.0003294,-0.0044496,0.0042772,-0.0159468,0.0066772,0.012374,0.022991,-0.004838
    CHN_Tarim_EMBA,0.102630417,-0.10341475,0.072941417,0.202225917,-0.112815917,0.0473185,-0.04821625,-0.0601705,-0.041671667,-0.095719417,0.027714417,-0.013459833,0.024529,-0.069591167,0.023977167,0.02343525,-0.018243,-0.0008865,0.000785667,-0.006388667,-0.050889417,0.007584,0.0233965,0.014911667,-0.007743833
    CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN,0.0170734,-0.4421616,0.022778,-0.0515508,0.0196344,-0.0039602,0.0089774,0.0057692,-0.0035588,0.0106792,-0.0916846,-0.0111202,0.0117144,-0.0013762,-0.0077904,-0.0013258,-0.0005476,-0.0033952,-0.0051536,0.0010756,0.0009234,0.0163468,0.0057188,0.0008918,0.025794
    CHN_Western_Liao_River_MN,0.01792725,-0.444294,0.030924,-0.05886675,0.0190805,-0.002301,0.00405375,0.00536525,-0.0050105,0.01079725,-0.08091,-0.00932925,0.00999725,-0.00306225,-0.0075325,0.00119325,0.0022815,0.00408575,0.0013515,0.0030015,0.01157325,0.001453,0.001325,0.00189775,0.000988
    CHN_Yellow_River_MN,0.0170735,-0.44801775,0.011722167,-0.063281083,0.049111667,0.018569667,0.005248417,0.000807667,-0.006749333,0.004981083,-0.087567917,-0.01066525,0.01266075,-0.0065715,-0.01090275,-0.00083975,0.002575083,-0.00097125,-0.004724083,-0.005450417,0.01557675,0.009676,0.012222083,-0.001375583,0.0078935
    IDN_Leang_Panninge,-0.047806,-0.204121,-0.154997,0.17216,0.089863,-0.176259,-0.002115,-0.005769,0.02352,0.01221,0.002598,-0.005095,-0.000446,0,0.010315,-0.000398,0.005998,0.005321,-0.000377,0.010255,0.006863,-0.001607,-0.003821,0.003735,-0.007664
    IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.036423,0.069056,-0.151603,-0.011951,-0.121253,0.011992,0.017626,-0.005307,-0.084059,-0.051026,0.003085,-0.005695,0.009217,-0.014588,0.026058,0.068814,-0.005737,0.008615,0.014581,-0.032391,0.01435,-0.02201,-0.016885,-0.041452,0.02874
    IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858,0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
    JPN_Jomon,0.00298775,-0.339821625,-0.054871375,0.010336,0.041546,0.010040125,0.000264375,-0.001961625,0.022395375,0.0191575,-0.04950825,-0.006331875,0.006782625,-0.004300625,-0.021630375,-0.015148375,0.00474275,0.009375,0.00620625,-0.00717525,0.066070875,-0.0464315,0.0089045,0.00588925,-0.099602
    LAO_Hoabinhian,-0.025041,-0.224432,-0.11917,0.087856,0.022466,-0.001952,-0.003055,0.01223,0.060539,0.018406,0.012829,0.001199,-0.000446,0.006055,-0.007872,-0.006364,-0.00352,-0.00076,-0.005531,0.023386,0.006988,0.013107,-0.017131,-0.001325,0.003712
    Levant_PPNB,0.0725625,0.1650235,-0.03092375,-0.1380835,0.03231375,-0.062541,-0.012103,-0.01413375,0.0735775,0.03672075,0.0194055,-0.01700975,0.036459,-0.000241,-0.021342,0.00672875,0.00896375,-0.0013935,-0.00540525,0.01922775,-0.0037435,0.007852,-0.0014175,-0.00626575,-0.00470025
    RUS_Boisman_MN,0.021109091,-0.447940909,0.074189727,-0.043487545,-0.051002455,-0.040591364,0.009806364,0.012251182,0.010412182,0.025678818,-0.041615727,-0.001771,-0.001148818,0.009170727,-0.008895818,-0.008280545,-0.003899727,0.005171273,0.012706455,0.014563636,0.003244364,-0.032835455,-0.025579455,0.001522727,-0.019050909
    RUS_Kolyma_Meso,0.043253,-0.337156,0.087492,0.045543,-0.07663,-0.02259,-0.047707,-0.050767,-0.006545,-0.024055,0.005846,-0.006145,0.017988,-0.026424,-0.021851,-0.004243,0.001173,0.012162,0.018101,0.008879,0.004118,-0.023247,0.013311,0.009158,0.009221
    RUS_Yakutia_Ymyiakhtakh_LN__N4b3,0.040976,-0.411289,0.137649,-0.001292,-0.132025,-0.07279,0.018096,0.036922,0.019225,0.005467,0.052614,0,0.004162,-0.029726,-0.024158,-0.012331,-0.004172,0.012289,0.017221,0.008754,0.012728,-0.016075,0.003451,0.001325,0.001557
    TUR_Barcin_N,0.117599818,0.180118,0.003531227,-0.101158045,0.051044273,-0.048387545,-0.004358227,-0.006933364,0.036228727,0.080747273,0.007971,0.011880318,-0.0234545,0.000469136,-0.041980682,-0.010191273,0.023309091,0.001986636,0.013695364,-0.009748909,-0.014224864,0.005772318,-0.004123182,-0.003165818,-0.004343682
    VNM_N,0.005691,-0.383531667,-0.072030333,-0.031546333,0.140231333,0.064888667,0.00376,-0.009538,-0.012203333,-0.013364,0.078920667,0.000699,-0.001536333,-0.005734333,0.011808,-0.000795333,-0.000261,-0.005067667,-0.001341,0.01359,-0.009649333,0.007378,-0.004026,-0.008635667,0.036244333
    VUT_2900BP,0.008726667,-0.421106333,-0.046762667,-0.062877333,0.145668,0.059589667,-0.006736667,-0.017307,-0.019157333,-0.024116333,0.057918667,0.004945667,-0.007532,0.006514,0.018412667,0.010960667,-0.00565,0.003251667,0.010601,-0.011755333,0.004533667,-0.024771667,-0.001396667,-0.015102333,-0.062629
    WHG,0.130897,0.120848,0.191577,0.194447,0.159107,0.048248,0.015746,0.040152,0.087332,0.007472,-0.016076,-0.015436,0.017839,-0.003303,0.047909,0.047069,0.007302,0.018497,-0.003268,0.057027,0.087471,0.00915,-0.048436,-0.143153,0.01449
    NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP__C1,0.012521,-0.410274,-0.011691,-0.031331,0.017542,0.011435,0.00658,0.011999,0.010022,0.021139,-0.081194,-0.006444,0.010109,-0.004679,-0.011401,0,0.011213,-0.001267,-0.009302,0.009379,0.004991,0.029306,0.004314,0.003615,0.031734
    AUS_Willandra_Lakes_4000BP,-0.042115,-0.224432,-0.205154,0.215442,0.145566,-0.322398,-0.007285,0.014538,-0.000818,0.003098,-0.004872,-0.002248,0.004311,-0.001239,-0.008415,-0.000796,0.004694,-0.001774,-0.01169,-0.003377,0.003369,-0.006801,-0.000863,-0.001928,-0.00946
    S_AASI_Sim,-0.007017607,-0.247268894,-0.229976338,0.16563825,-0.035368871,0.064331863,-0.015188881,0.027727614,0.147380455,0.101064071,-0.004664075,-0.004333522,0.003228897,0.026031903,-0.047720864,-0.045200255,0.010093749,0.000906224,0.000245098,0.039040136,0.009429353,0.024010206,-0.003068505,0.015983546,-0.010868946
    CHN_Lower_YR_preNeolithic:CHN_Xiaojingshan_N__XJS1309_M8,0.012141,-0.438370333,0.025015667,-0.052003,0.022978333,-0.010505333,-0.004465333,0.001076667,-0.007363,0.010205,-0.080382333,-0.011539667,0.012239667,-0.003119333,-0.007781333,-0.007955333,-0.00013,0.001604667,0.004106,-0.004210333,0.013725667,-0.000288333,0.009818667,-0.006145,-0.005788
    CHN_Lower_YR_preNeolithic:CHN_Bianbian_N__Bianbian,0.015935,-0.443786,0.028284,-0.052003,0.024312,-0.005299,-0.002585,0.000231,-0.00225,0.011663,-0.073887,-6.74E-03,0.004906,-0.007844,-0.011943,0.001724,0.004303,0.004687,0.002011,0.004127,0.022086,-0.001731,-0.003451,-0.005181,-0.008981
    CHN_Lower_YR_preNeolithic:CHN_Boshan_N__BS,0.01935,-0.444802,0.032432,-0.062339,0.012618,0.002789,0.009635,0.003,-0.007772,0.008201,-0.074861,-0.009891,0.009812,-0.008533,-0.010315,-0.005701,-0.004042,0.003801,-0.000377,-0.002126,0.013726,0.003215,0.005793,-0.005543,-0.005628
    CHN_Lower_YR_preNeolithic:CHN_Xiaogao_N,0.005691,-0.437693,0.025644,-0.048773,0.011694,-0.008925,-0.003995,0.003692,-0.000205,0.011481,-0.075835,-0.007493,0.00669,-0.002202,-0.004207,0.004641,0.002477,0.001774,-0.00088,-0.007754,0.014474,-0.002473,-0.002711,0.001687,-0.011256
    Baikal_BA:RUS_Shamanka_EBA,0.044391,-0.3729024,0.1049152,0.020995,-0.1033424,-0.051762,-0.0054052,0.0019386,0.0095308,-0.0022234,0.0060732,-0.0013188,-0.0015758,-0.0348186,0.0050758,0.0025458,-0.0074318,-0.0042316,0.0113884,0.0179838,-0.0406284,0.0161984,0.0073456,-0.0112062,-0.0048856
    Baikal_BA:RUS_Kurma_EBA,0.0472365,-0.360513,0.107102,0.0234175,-0.1049425,-0.0421125,0.004465,0.0040385,0.0060335,-0.0020045,-0.0006495,0.001499,0.008399,-0.024772,-0.001018,-0.0051045,-0.002412,-0.004561,0.005028,0.0177585,-0.0386195,0.008594,0.0071485,-0.0054225,-0.014849
    Baikal_BA:RUS_Baikal_BA__GLZ003,0.0387,-0.368637,0.098051,0.020026,-0.106789,-0.041834,0.001645,0.006231,0.009817,-0.007654,0.006333,-0.001499,0.003568,-0.024359,-0.004343,-0.006232,-0.008605,-0.001774,0.007039,0.018384,-0.032443,0.011376,-0.003451,-0.006386,-0.003473
    Baikal_BA:RUS_Angara_River_BA,0.046895,-0.3659968,0.1001632,0.0225454,-0.1063584,-0.0404394,-0.0042302,-0.0029074,0.000491,-0.0037176,0.0115944,-0.0047656,0.0050842,-0.0358368,0.0007874,-0.0018296,-0.0062324,0.0034204,0.0066872,0.0156078,-0.0402538,0.0158522,0.0088,-0.01017,-0.006155
    MNG_North_N,0.0237403,-0.4314549,0.0890541,-0.0247326,-0.0815536,-0.0521129,0.0134964,0.0145379,0.0179981,0.020098,-0.029346,-0.0013703,0.0013593,-0.0051314,-0.0056033,-0.0039967,0.0038743,0.0006154,0.0038967,0.020331,-0.0196439,-0.0037801,-0.0166207,-0.0061969,0.0076981
    MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave,0.0247883,-0.4316,0.0744604,-0.0324077,-0.0641144,-0.0424223,0.0110716,0.0203838,0.0101353,0.0177378,-0.0425639,-0.0023647,-0.000165,0.0003823,4.51e-05,-0.0017383,0.0008403,-0.0046594,-0.0001953,0.0198567,-0.0247064,-0.0017723,-0.0200073,-0.0059041,0.0012639
    RUS_PreOkunevo:RUS_BZK002__BZK002,0.064879,-0.24982,0.093903,0.08721,-0.100019,-0.01004,-0.035252,-0.041537,-0.016566,-0.045559,0.002923,-0.001948,0.016204,-0.048856,0.005157,0.006895,-0.009388,-0.002914,0.011816,0.005127,-0.033067,0.005564,0.006162,0.005061,-0.00455
    Steppe_MLBA:RUS_Sintashta_MLBA,0.125433,0.116075,0.0576869,0.0787689,0.0113968,0.0284096,0.0056636,0.0042383,-0.0176231,-0.028034,-0.0025766,0.0013488,-0.0032061,-0.0215196,0.0225975,0.0126579,-0.004885,0.0004476,-0.0002933,-0.0006753,-0.0061142,0.0023618,0.0026497,0.007033,-0.0041074
    Steppe_MLBA:RUS_Petrovka_MLBA,0.118376,0.129988,0.06939,0.070091,0.008001,0.031236,-0.00047,-0.003,-0.010635,-0.013485,-0.000162,-0.005545,-0.006838,-0.025735,0.015879,0.023999,0.005607,-0.000633,-0.002011,0.003627,-0.002371,-0.00136,-0.002218,0.028317,-0.007544
    Afanasievo:RUS_Afanasievo,0.1238692,0.0885718,0.0411719,0.1122644,-0.0310693,0.0459564,0.0025033,-0.0017458,-0.058058,-0.077284,-0.0001412,-0.000189,-0.001325,-0.020392,0.0384738,0.0086529,-0.0092743,-0.0023906,-0.0035742,0.0096623,-0.0059515,0.0015913,0.013043,0.0233243,-0.0027958
    CHN_SE_Coastal_Island_N:CHN_Xitoucun_N,0.0085365,-0.431092,-0.037335,-0.058786,0.125562,0.0496425,0.0001175,-0.011538,-0.0223955,-0.013759,0.015995,0.004421,0.003865,-0.001514,0.0068535,0.0021215,-0.000326,0.0041805,0.0024515,-0.0123805,0.018842,-0.017435,0.0094285,-0.0102425,-0.024369
    CHN_SE_Coastal_Island_N:CHN_Liangdao1_N,0.002276,-0.409258,-0.052043,-0.038114,0.107405,0.046575,-0.006345,-0.01523,-0.020657,-0.013485,0.021922,0.009292,-0.003122,0.000138,0.015879,0.001326,0.004824,0,-0.008045,-0.006378,0.005116,-0.011005,-0.002588,-0.009278,-0.03341
    CHN_SE_Coastal_Island_N:CHN_Liangdao2_N,0.006829,-0.407227,-0.052043,-0.040052,0.112944,0.045459,0.00141,-0.004384,-0.005931,-0.008565,0.034589,0.003747,-0.010406,0.001927,0.007736,0.012066,0.00352,0.004814,0.005028,-0.00988,0.007237,-0.011005,0.013188,-0.01687,-0.02874
    CHN_SE_Coastal_Island_N:TWN_Liangdao_Late_Paleo,0.006829,-0.379808,-0.035449,-0.02907,0.119715,0.0502,-0.00094,-0.005769,-0.014112,-0.025695,0.03329,-0.001798,-0.016055,0.012799,-0.005157,0.010209,-0.005607,0.007855,0.00352,0.001376,0.024582,-0.003091,0.014666,-0.004579,-0.015567
     
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    I actually forgot to put Afanasievo:

     
    Some simple calculations, maps and plots I make for free, but for more complicated maps, plots and calculations I ask for a donation of $2 or €1.7 per map/plot via Hidden Content PayPalHidden Content account.
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  11. #287
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by MNOPSC1b View Post
    I checked the age of Xitoucun_N and found that the age of the site is around 4,000 years ago, which is around the same time that rice cultivation had spread to Lingnan from the Yangtse region.

    However, judging from the descriptions I've found about this site on Chinese websites, the primary food source of the Xitoucun people still came from hunting and fishing, and I don't think large-scale rice cultivation has ever been discovered on this site. Hence it's likely that Xitoucun people represent a continuation of the earlier Neolithic peoples in this region, and not the new arrivals from Central China.
    Who do you think are the closest modern-day relatives of the Liangzhu peoples?

    Quote Originally Posted by MNOPSC1b View Post
    That's not what I said, you misinterpreted me again. I never said it was definitely the case but only a possibility. So far we don't have conclusive evidence that it was an Austronesian-like population which brought rice-farming to Northern China, Korea, and Japan. The little Austronesian component that these populations have could be due to a much more ancient connection with Southern East Asians in the form of Coastal Ghost ancestry, which predates rice cultivation by a long shot.

    The thing is the spread of a certain culture may not coincide with movements of people from where that culture originated. It could be passed on and changed hands among various intermediate peoples before finally reaching its destination. A similar example would be the technology of chariot-making. It originated from West Asia among the Hittites or the Egyptians, but I don't think it was those people who brought chariots to Shang and Zhou era China. It had changed hands along the way multiple times. I think the diffusion of rice farming probably followed a similar pattern.

    Again, please refrain from projecting your wishful thinking or your subjective opinions onto our discussions.
    It sounds like you misinterpreted me. I didn't say Northern Han, Koreans, Japanese, etc. have actual Austronesian (more accurately Malayo-Polynesian), I just said that the SEA-like component in these modern-day populations can be modeled as Malayo-Polynesian because they have some amount of Coastal Ghost ancestry that the ancestors of Austronesians had but the Austronesian-related ancestors of Daic peoples probably didn't. Of course this doesn't explain why the SEA-like component of inland Northern Han (e.g. Henan, Shanxi) is also modeled as Malayo-Polynesian.




    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I actually forgot to put Afanasievo:

    In the most recent version, we can see that

    1. The Non-East Eurasian component of Aeta/PH Negritos is modeled as Leang Panninge.
    2. Non-Igorot Filipinos and Koreans are modeled as having a little Jomon (but not Taiwanese aborigines).
    3. The Non-East Eurasian component in Wallaceans is modeled as Papuan/Australian aborigine-like. A good chunk of the East Eurasian ancestry in many Wallaceans is Austroasiatic-like, certainly more than in Filipinos.
    4. Malay, Lao, and Siamese have both Simulated_AASI and IRN_Shahr-i-Sokhta. Cambodian and Khmer only seem to have the first one.
    5. The Non-East Eurasian component of MY Negritos is mostly Hoabinhian-like and Simulated_AASI-like, but is also modeled with some Leang Panninge and Papuan-like component.
    6. The South Asian groups that have Afanesievo also have Steppe_MBLA
    7. The West-East cline for Chokhopani vs Upper_YR_LN among Himalayan-speaking groups in Mainland SEA is interesting.
    8. Mongolic groups in China have a lot of Himalayan (Sinitic-related) ancestry
    Last edited by okarinaofsteiner; 06-24-2022 at 03:22 AM.

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  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirTaraskin View Post
    Ancient DNA reveals five streams of migration into Micronesia and matrilocality in early Pacific seafarers

    Human migrations into Micronesia

    The movements of ancient humans can be difficult to ascertain from their current population genetic structure. Studying the peopling of the Micronesian islands, Liu et al. examined 164 ancient human remains from five different archaeological sites in remote Oceania from different prehistoric time frames, along with 112 present-day individuals from the same area. They combined these new data with the results of previous studies and also compared their results with linguistic studies. Their analysis revealed successive movements from island Southeast Asia that differ from those in the southwest Pacific. Furthermore, co-analysis of Micronesian and southwest Pacific ancient DNA indicates that the first people who colonized the Pacific islands had a population structure in which men moved to find their mates, whereas women rarely moved to join men. —LMZ


    Abstract

    Micronesia began to be peopled earlier than other parts of Remote Oceania, but the origins of its inhabitants remain unclear. We generated genome-wide data from 164 ancient and 112 modern individuals. Analysis reveals five migratory streams into Micronesia. Three are East Asian related, one is Polynesian, and a fifth is a Papuan source related to mainland New Guineans that is different from the New Britain–related Papuan source for southwest Pacific populations but is similarly derived from male migrants ~2500 to 2000 years ago. People of the Mariana Archipelago may derive all of their precolonial ancestry from East Asian sources, making them the only Remote Oceanians without Papuan ancestry. Female-inherited mitochondrial DNA was highly differentiated across early Remote Oceanian communities but homogeneous within, implying matrilocal practices whereby women almost never raised their children in communities different from the ones in which they grew up.

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm6536
    I’m glad this isn’t Anthroscape or some similarly phenotype-oriented forum. No weird “racial purity” statements about Chamorro-Filipina-American goddess Joleen Diaz please, let’s admire her slightly-augmented youthful beauty without any of that crap.

    I may have mentioned this before in this thread, but someone on Reddit sent me a bunch of GEDmatch kit numbers. Haven’t had much time to really analyze them even though I have their MDLP K23b results entered into my master spreadsheet, will get around to that at some point.

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