okarinaofsteiner's East Eurasian GEDmatch megathread

[Tsakhur]

The northern element does not mean that there is a genetic relationship between the southern nationalities and the Han nationality. At that time, the modern nationalities were not yet formed, and the genetic exchange was also developed on the premise of the interaction between the northern and southern populations. The specific time was the impact of the ancient Neolithic Age. This scale ended when the later generations entered the feudal monarchy era. I think that the general level of the southern Han Dynasty deviated from the main body of the northern Han Dynasty too far, The south is basically the same as Miao, Yao, She, Tujia, Dong and other southern nationalities, and Lingnan is more southward

By Southern Han Dynasty and Northern Han Dynasty, are you referring to the ones during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period?

[utu]

By Southern Han Dynasty and Northern Han Dynasty, are you referring to the ones during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period?

You are really joking. I'm talking about nationalities, not Chinese history

[Tsakhur]

You are really joking. I'm talking about nationalities, not Chinese history

Okay you were discussing nationalities, but weren't you mentioning about southern Han Dynasty and northern Han dynasty in the bolded? Just want you to expand more on this.

The northern element does not mean that there is a genetic relationship between the southern nationalities and the Han nationality. At that time, the modern nationalities were not yet formed, and the genetic exchange was also developed on the premise of the interaction between the northern and southern populations. The specific time was the impact of the ancient Neolithic Age. This scale ended when the later generations entered the feudal monarchy era. I think that the general level of the southern Han Dynasty deviated from the main body of the northern Han Dynasty too far, The south is basically the same as Miao, Yao, She, Tujia, Dong and other southern nationalities, and Lingnan is more southward

[utu]

As someone who has partial Manchu ancestry that shows up in my DNA Land and 23andMe v6.0 results (scored enough Siberian to not be classified as trace), I can assure you the bolded part isn't true.

Reference population is probably Oroqen. I think Mongol could be from either region, although there are more ethnic Mongols in the PRC than in Mongolia itself.



The 81 Guangdong adoptees (in green) were almost all from Maoming (4), Yangjiang (21), and Zhanjiang (53). There's one super Northern (almost Korean-like but not quite) outlier from Foshan, one Sichuan/Jiangxi-like outlier from Zhuhai, and one Yunnan/Hubei-like outlier from Zhanjiang. The rest are all within the expected range for Guangdong, with a couple Zhanjiang outliers that are extra SEA-shifted or score Southern Vietnamese-levels of the Hoabinhian component.

In fact, southerners will carry factors related to the north more or less, which is not a bad thing. But after the north-south division, because mobility is inevitable, there are differences across the country. For example, the lowest value of some groups is about 10% , but the pure benchmark only exists in ancient times, and it can even be said that it has something to do with the north, which does not hinder the national and regional identity of the south, Because their main ancestors are in the south, we can't just introduce the role of NEA on the southerners. It's better to emphasize the SEA closely related to the south, especially the two newly discovered ancient ancestral branches of inland Mekong and coastal Fujian. They are the real southerners, who have the main genetic contribution to the modern south.The view of alienation is really true. The use of specific ethnic groups has really caused ambiguity. For example, the friend above thought I was talking about Chinese history

[Tsakhur]

In fact, southerners will carry factors related to the north more or less, which is not a bad thing. But after the north-south division, because mobility is inevitable, there are differences across the country. For example, the lowest value of some groups is about% 10, but the pure benchmark only exists in ancient times, and it can even be said that it has something to do with the north, which does not hinder the national and regional identity of the south, Because their main ancestors are in the south, we can't just introduce the role of NEA on the southerners. It's better to emphasize the SEA closely related to the south, especially the two newly discovered ancient ancestral branches of inland Mekong and coastal Fujian. They are the real southerners, who have the main genetic contribution to the modern south.alienation is not bad. The use of specific ethnic groups has really caused ambiguity. For example, the old man above thinks I'm talking about Chinese history

I'm not old though, but alright. I was confused by the word "Dynasty" in Southern and Northern Han in your earlier post but its seems to be a typo.

[utu]

I'm not old though, but alright. I was confused by the word "Dynasty" in Southern and Northern Han in your earlier post but its seems to be a typo.

Yes, after entering the Qin and Han dynasties, the pattern of the north and the south was basically settled.That's right. I mean to say that China's dynasties have restricted the north and south Population fusion Stopped the progress

[utu]

I'm not old though, but alright. I was confused by the word "Dynasty" in Southern and Northern Han in your earlier post but its seems to be a typo.

HaHa.You have been active in the forum for longer than me. You are naturally called the old man, but I can see that you are very interested in Chinese history

[okarinaofsteiner]

The DNALand results on Wegene forums shows Manchus are not that distinguishable. I'm not familiar with 23andMe and haven't seen full Manchu results on there. How much Siberian do they get on average?

I haven't seen any full Manchu 23andMe results either. I'm 1/4 Manchu on paper, and I scored 1.8% Siberian + 4.6% Mongolic/Tungusic on DNA Land, which I figured would be outside the normal range for Northern Han when I first saw that result. What do Northern Han and Manchu DNA Land results on Wegene look like?

Using your own data to debate you, apart from a few adoptees whose biological parents are likely not from Guangdong, the vast majority of your Western GD adoptee samples are very southern-shifted located at the southern end of the Sinitic cline, and with some extra SEA shifted ones as well.

So according to your logic, a few northern outliers can undermine the coherence of an entire group?

I don't know if the Guangxi adoptees were all Han but they're all clearly more southern than the Guangdong adoptees average so there's still some difference.

[Tsakhur]

I haven't seen any full Manchu 23andMe results either. I'm 1/4 Manchu on paper, and I scored 1.8% Siberian + 4.6% Mongolic/Tungusic on DNA Land, which I figured would be outside the normal range for Northern Han when I first saw that result. What do Northern Han and Manchu DNA Land results on Wegene look like?



I don't know if the Guangxi adoptees were all Han but they're all clearly more southern than the Guangdong adoptees average so there's still some difference.

Just wondering, do you score any Western Eurasian? I noticed many Northern Han have very negligible to almost noise levels of Western input in the range of 1-3% possibly from interactions with northern nomads. Also you are part Southern Han? What are the closest populations to you in G25 and other DNA testing companies/calculators?

[okarinaofsteiner]

I haven't seen any full Manchu 23andMe results either. I'm 1/4 Manchu on paper, and I scored 1.8% Siberian + 4.6% Mongolic/Tungusic on DNA Land, which I figured would be outside the normal range for Northern Han when I first saw that result. What do Northern Han and Manchu DNA Land results on Wegene look like?

Just wondering, do you score any Western Eurasian? I noticed many Northern Han have very negligible to almost noise levels of Western input in the range of 1-3% possibly from interactions with northern nomads. Also you are part Southern Han? What are the closest populations to you in G25 and other DNA testing companies/calculators?

Not in MDLP K23b, IIRC uisashi does. My on-paper ancestry is a combination of Southern Han (from along the Yangtze river), Northern Han, and Manchu.

Illustrative DNA

# POPULATION DISTANCE
1 Han (Shandong) 2.812
2 Han (Jiangsu) 3.156
3 Han (Henan) 3.334
4 Han (Shanxi) 3.355
5 Han (Zhejiang) 3.568
6 Tibetan (Xinlong) 3.980
7 Han (Shanghai) 4.212
8 Han (Sichuan) 4.218
9 Han (Hubei) 4.235
10 Korean 4.386
11 Yi (China) 4.676
12 Qiang (Danba) 4.796
13 Tujia (China) 5.083
14 Yugur 5.243
15 Han (Fujian) 5.442

16 Miao (China) 6.072
18 She (China) 6.113
20 Japanese 6.694
21 Tu (China) 6.752
22 Mongol (Hulunbuir) 7.120
32 Mizo 8.932
33 Han (Guangdong) 8.946
36 Dungan 9.005
39 Lahu (China) 10.451
43 Zhuang (China) 11.088
45 Kinh (Vietnam) 11.432
48 Dai (China) 12.679