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Thread: G25 Afrikaner admixture

  1. #11
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    Many Huguenots in South Africa were Southern French from Provence (eg Luberon) and Dauphine'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstephan View Post
    Do you know if there is any reliable documentation about where the French protestants that went to Netherlands came from. From what I heard the ones that went to Britain and then the US came from different areas that the ones that went to Netherlands and then south Africa? I found that link, on that list a significant number of passengers are from North pas de Calais and picardy but I don't know if it reflects the reality. A significant number of passengers are also from deep south France which could explain the south French fraction on the op Post.
    I'm not sure. It's not something I've really looked into, but since you asked I've tried to find out a bit more, and I took another look at my family tree. I couldn't find much clear, consolidated info on Huguenot migration patterns, but I did come across this old text from 1903 which has a fairly useful overview of Huguenot migration and claims that:
    The Huguenots were largely represented in the maritime provinces of Normandy, Brittany, Saintonge, and Languedoc, and sometimes they made the voyage directly to America. But more often the first flight was to England or Holland, where parties were formed for crossing the ocean.
    Source: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ISDQC/17*.html

    I re-examined my ancestors I'd labelled as "Huguenots", and in fact most of them were not strictly speaking Huguenots, but rather Walloons, since the area of Nord-Pas-de-Calais they were from was still part of the Spanish Netherlands at that point. However, at least a couple of those have deeper roots in other parts of modern France, including Normandy.

    I do have a few colonial settler ancestors who, as far as I can tell, were born in France proper. One was born in Verdun and settled in Albany with his Dutch-born wife. One was born in Poitou-Charentes, married the Dutch-born daughter of Walloon migrants from Nord-Pas-de-Calais and settled in New Jersey. I believe the related Trembley family, which also settled in New Jersey from the Netherlands, was originally from Poitou-Charentes. There's another couple whose exact origin I can't determine - may be from France proper, in which case they are from Normandie and Picardie, respectively, or they're Walloons. At a certain point it gets confusing, because the migration routes intersect and "Huguenot" in the U.S. became a catch-all term encompassing Walloons.

    In any case, the Huguenots who settled in the greater New Amsterdam/New York area in the mid-17th century (my ancestors' case) did not settle directly from France, but rather through the United Provinces of the Netherlands or through the German Palatinate. Later on, though, there were cases of what seem to be more or less direct migration from France, though often sponsored by the English, like the settlement in New Rochelle, N.Y. (many of whom, naturally, were from La Rochelle) or the settlements in South Carolina and Virginia.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm not sure. It's not something I've really looked into, but since you asked I've tried to find out a bit more, and I took another look at my family tree. I couldn't find much clear, consolidated info on Huguenot migration patterns, but I did come across this old text from 1903 which has a fairly useful overview of Huguenot migration and claims that: Source: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ISDQC/17*.html

    I re-examined my ancestors I'd labelled as "Huguenots", and in fact most of them were not strictly speaking Huguenots, but rather Walloons, since the area of Nord-Pas-de-Calais they were from was still part of the Spanish Netherlands at that point. However, at least a couple of those have deeper roots in other parts of modern France, including Normandy.

    I do have a few colonial settler ancestors who, as far as I can tell, were born in France proper. One was born in Verdun and settled in Albany with his Dutch-born wife. One was born in Poitou-Charentes, married the Dutch-born daughter of Walloon migrants from Nord-Pas-de-Calais and settled in New Jersey. I believe the related Trembley family, which also settled in New Jersey from the Netherlands, was originally from Poitou-Charentes. There's another couple whose exact origin I can't determine - may be from France proper, in which case they are from Normandie and Picardie, respectively, or they're Walloons. At a certain point it gets confusing, because the migration routes intersect and "Huguenot" in the U.S. became a catch-all term encompassing Walloons.

    In any case, the Huguenots who settled in the greater New Amsterdam/New York area in the mid-17th century (my ancestors' case) did not settle directly from France, but rather through the United Provinces of the Netherlands or through the German Palatinate. Later on, though, there were cases of what seem to be more or less direct migration from France, though often sponsored by the English, like the settlement in New Rochelle, N.Y. (many of whom, naturally, were from La Rochelle) or the settlements in South Carolina and Virginia.
    Thanks for this passenger, very informative. Also heard about that New Rochelle city in the US that was founded by huguenots, but apparently its also because they left the port of la Rochelle, not necessarily because they came from there that they gave that name to the city. La Rochelle was the strongest centre of resistance against Catholics in France at that time and a lot of protestants from all over the country were moving there for safety before migrating to others places such as the US.

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  7. #14
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    An example Afrikaner pedigree, the gg-grandmother of Elon Musk!
    I think this one is a bit more French than Dutch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracow View Post
    Target: Afrikaner
    Distance: 0.4006% / 0.00400586
    43.2 Dutch
    29.6 German
    17.8 Belgian
    6.0 French_South
    2.0 Maratha
    1.4 Bantu_S.E.

    I used the G25 Vahaduo site and made Afrikaners known to their ancestors

    Dutch, German, French, Belgian, Bantu, Indian

    They have less French than I expected, but maybe Belgian is a French Belgian and that can explain
    Lukasz did a 20 boers average some times ago with K36:

    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    20 Boers average results

    Code:
     Flemish         Walloons    FR_North-West       SE_England           Hessen  NL_Zuid_Holland          Cumbria NL_Noord_Brabant 
            6.113322         6.568166         6.636098         7.129444         7.275530         7.283632         7.365603         7.492576
    "distance%=3.527"

    Walloons,27.2
    Nordrhein-Westfalen,23.8
    FR_North-West,12.4
    NE_England,8.4
    Cumbria,5.4
    NL_Noord_Holland,4.2
    Bayern,3.2
    FR_North-East,3
    FR_West,2.4
    SV_Skane,1.2
    Extremadura,0.6
    Flemish,0.6
    NL_Drenthe,0.6
    Andalusia,0.4
    Cachi_ARG,0.4
    Canarias,0.4
    FR_Basque,0.4
    NL_Utrecht,0.4
    SV_Svealand,0.4
    ALG_North-West,0.2
    Aragůn,0.2
    Asturia,0.2
    Baloch_IR,0.2
    Brahmin_UP,0.2
    Cantabria,0.2
    Cataluna,0.2
    Central_Romania,0.2
    Chitrali_PAK,0.2
    FR_South-West,0.2
    Hessen,0.2
    IT_Lazio,0.2
    Latvia_Ashkenazy,0.2
    Nepali_Brahmin,0.2
    NL_Zuid_Holland,0.2
    North_Sweden,0.2
    Northern_Ireland,0.2
    Norwegians,0.2
    PL_Suwalskie,0.2
    Romanian_Jew,0.2
    Tajik_Iskashim,0.2
    Tajik_Yagnobi,0.2
    Turkmen,0.2

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm not sure. It's not something I've really looked into, but since you asked I've tried to find out a bit more, and I took another look at my family tree. I couldn't find much clear, consolidated info on Huguenot migration patterns, but I did come across this old text from 1903 which has a fairly useful overview of Huguenot migration and claims that: Source: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ISDQC/17*.html

    I re-examined my ancestors I'd labelled as "Huguenots", and in fact most of them were not strictly speaking Huguenots, but rather Walloons, since the area of Nord-Pas-de-Calais they were from was still part of the Spanish Netherlands at that point. However, at least a couple of those have deeper roots in other parts of modern France, including Normandy.

    I do have a few colonial settler ancestors who, as far as I can tell, were born in France proper. One was born in Verdun and settled in Albany with his Dutch-born wife. One was born in Poitou-Charentes, married the Dutch-born daughter of Walloon migrants from Nord-Pas-de-Calais and settled in New Jersey. I believe the related Trembley family, which also settled in New Jersey from the Netherlands, was originally from Poitou-Charentes. There's another couple whose exact origin I can't determine - may be from France proper, in which case they are from Normandie and Picardie, respectively, or they're Walloons. At a certain point it gets confusing, because the migration routes intersect and "Huguenot" in the U.S. became a catch-all term encompassing Walloons.

    In any case, the Huguenots who settled in the greater New Amsterdam/New York area in the mid-17th century (my ancestors' case) did not settle directly from France, but rather through the United Provinces of the Netherlands or through the German Palatinate. Later on, though, there were cases of what seem to be more or less direct migration from France, though often sponsored by the English, like the settlement in New Rochelle, N.Y. (many of whom, naturally, were from La Rochelle) or the settlements in South Carolina and Virginia.
    The Hugenots and Walloons are often confused (or are even called both, the commemorative coin of the founding of New Amsterdam has "Huguenot Walloon" written on it), the British for example made no distinction between both.
    In any case, the first settlers of NY were Walloons (Jesse de Forest, Isaac Lemaire, Pierre Minuit), I know that the very first recorded citizen of New Amsterdam was a walloon woman. Few people know that's the reason the character play by Di Caprio in "Gangs of New York" is called Amsterdam Vallon.

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tchekitchek View Post
    Lukasz did a 20 boers average some times ago with K36:
    Quote Originally Posted by tchekitchek View Post
    The Hugenots and Walloons are often confused (or are even called both, the commemorative coin of the founding of New Amsterdam has "Huguenot Walloon" written on it), the British for example made no distinction between both.
    In any case, the first settlers of NY were Walloons (Jesse de Forest, Isaac Lemaire, Pierre Minuit), I know that the very first recorded citizen of New Amsterdam was a walloon woman. Few people know that's the reason the character play by Di Caprio in "Gangs of New York" is called Amsterdam Vallon.
    Are you also watching Trackers?
    ďAnd, furthermore, that some people have a sex life and others donít just because some are more attractive than others. I wanted to acknowledge that if people donít have a sex life, itís not for some moral reason, itís just because theyíre ugly. Once youíve said it, it sounds obvious, but I wanted to say it.Ē ó Michel Houellebecq

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    Quote Originally Posted by NixYO View Post
    Are you also watching Trackers?
    Nope, I never heard about it... looks interesting

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  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracow View Post
    Target: Afrikaner
    Distance: 0.4006% / 0.00400586
    43.2 Dutch
    29.6 German
    17.8 Belgian
    6.0 French_South
    2.0 Maratha
    1.4 Bantu_S.E.

    I used the G25 Vahaduo site and made Afrikaners known to their ancestors

    Dutch, German, French, Belgian, Bantu, Indian

    They have less French than I expected, but maybe Belgian is a French Belgian and that can explain
    I ran a modified version of your model in which I removed German and Belgian while adding Danish, Austrian and French_Provence:

    nMonte3:
    Code:
    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
              Dutch        Austrian          Danish French_Provence    French_South 
           1.936835        2.816040        2.876581        4.725930        6.161733 
            Maratha      Bantu_S.E. 
          36.160739       75.467238 
    
    [1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"
    [1] "penalty= 0.001"
    [1] "Ncycles= 1000"
    
    [...]
    
    [1] "distance%=0.3742"
    
    	 Afrikaner
    
    Dutch,49.8
    Danish,17.6
    Austrian,12.2
    French_Provence,9.2
    French_South,7.8
    Maratha,2.2
    Bantu_S.E.,1.2
    Vahaduo:

    Distance to: Afrikaner
    0.01936835 Dutch
    0.02816040 Austrian
    0.02876581 Danish
    0.04725930 French_Provence
    0.06161733 French_South
    0.36160739 Maratha
    0.75467238 Bantu_S.E.

    Target: Afrikaner
    Distance: 0.3622% / 0.00362214
    47.2 Dutch
    20.6 Danish
    12.4 French_Provence
    9.6 Austrian
    6.8 French_South
    2.2 Maratha
    1.2 Bantu_S.E.

    Edit
    I run yet another model, but this time I added back Belgian, removed French_South and added French_Occitanie instead:

    nMonte3:
    Code:
    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
               Dutch          Belgian         Austrian           Danish 
            1.936835         2.075416         2.816040         2.876581 
    French_Occitanie  French_Provence          Maratha       Bantu_S.E. 
            3.972672         4.725930        36.160739        75.467238 
    
    [1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"
    [1] "penalty= 0.001"
    [1] "Ncycles= 1000"
    
    [...]
    
    [1] "distance%=0.4496"
    
    	 Afrikaner
    
    Dutch,50.6
    Belgian,16
    Austrian,9.8
    Danish,8.4
    French_Occitanie,7
    French_Provence,5.4
    Bantu_S.E.,1.4
    Maratha,1.4
    Vahaduo:

    Distance to: Afrikaner
    0.01936835 Dutch
    0.02075416 Belgian
    0.02816040 Austrian
    0.02876581 Danish
    0.03972672 French_Occitanie
    0.04725930 French_Provence
    0.36160739 Maratha
    0.75467238 Bantu_S.E.

    Target: Afrikaner
    Distance: 0.3515% / 0.00351520
    45.8 Dutch
    18.4 Danish
    17.2 French_Occitanie
    9.0 Austrian
    6.0 French_Provence
    2.4 Maratha
    1.2 Bantu_S.E.

    Same model as above but with Belgian removed:

    nMonte3:
    Code:
    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
               Dutch         Austrian           Danish French_Occitanie 
            1.936835         2.816040         2.876581         3.972672 
     French_Provence          Maratha       Bantu_S.E. 
            4.725930        36.160739        75.467238 
    
    [1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"
    [1] "penalty= 0.001"
    [1] "Ncycles= 1000"
    
    [...]
    
    [1] "distance%=0.3551"
    
    	 Afrikaner
    
    Dutch,49.2
    Danish,16
    French_Occitanie,13.8
    Austrian,9.8
    French_Provence,7.8
    Maratha,2.2
    Bantu_S.E.,1.2
    Last edited by NixYO; 07-02-2020 at 01:14 PM.
    ďAnd, furthermore, that some people have a sex life and others donít just because some are more attractive than others. I wanted to acknowledge that if people donít have a sex life, itís not for some moral reason, itís just because theyíre ugly. Once youíve said it, it sounds obvious, but I wanted to say it.Ē ó Michel Houellebecq

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  18. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm not sure. It's not something I've really looked into, but since you asked I've tried to find out a bit more, and I took another look at my family tree. I couldn't find much clear, consolidated info on Huguenot migration patterns, but I did come across this old text from 1903 which has a fairly useful overview of Huguenot migration and claims that: Source: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ISDQC/17*.html

    I re-examined my ancestors I'd labelled as "Huguenots", and in fact most of them were not strictly speaking Huguenots, but rather Walloons, since the area of Nord-Pas-de-Calais they were from was still part of the Spanish Netherlands at that point. However, at least a couple of those have deeper roots in other parts of modern France, including Normandy.

    I do have a few colonial settler ancestors who, as far as I can tell, were born in France proper. One was born in Verdun and settled in Albany with his Dutch-born wife. One was born in Poitou-Charentes, married the Dutch-born daughter of Walloon migrants from Nord-Pas-de-Calais and settled in New Jersey. I believe the related Trembley family, which also settled in New Jersey from the Netherlands, was originally from Poitou-Charentes. There's another couple whose exact origin I can't determine - may be from France proper, in which case they are from Normandie and Picardie, respectively, or they're Walloons. At a certain point it gets confusing, because the migration routes intersect and "Huguenot" in the U.S. became a catch-all term encompassing Walloons.

    In any case, the Huguenots who settled in the greater New Amsterdam/New York area in the mid-17th century (my ancestors' case) did not settle directly from France, but rather through the United Provinces of the Netherlands or through the German Palatinate. Later on, though, there were cases of what seem to be more or less direct migration from France, though often sponsored by the English, like the settlement in New Rochelle, N.Y. (many of whom, naturally, were from La Rochelle) or the settlements in South Carolina and Virginia.
    Passenger, if you want to learn further about them and their exodus, there is a nice documentary available from Arte (a German/French TV channel), subtitles are available.

    First part

    Second part
    Last edited by jstephan; 07-02-2020 at 03:42 PM.

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