Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: J-Y11200

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    92
    Sex
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z30682
    mtDNA (M)
    H1j4

    United States of America

    J-Y11200

    https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y11200/ is an interesting branch. It probably formed near Mesopotamia during the Copper Age, from where it spread to places like Georgia, Turkey, and England.

    Y11200.png

    Y11200 and its predecessors have been found in human remains all the way from Europe to the BMAC, concentrated along the southeastern coast of the Black Sea. Today the mutation is present among a family of Arabs from Riyadh, a few Chechens, and 6 or 7 Americans with matches in western Europe.

    Trying to figure out how this branch spread is confusing. This thread is for discussing Y11200 and related branches. What do you think happened?
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sheepslayer For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-23-2020),  J Man (06-22-2020),  Principe (06-22-2020)

  3. #2
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,403
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z482>Y15245
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2b5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z36>Y156527

    Italy Italy Sicily Italy Two Sicilies Vatican Star of David
    My honest opinion and based on the data we have so far, well there was Y11200* found in Maykop, I think Y11200 was part of a Mesopotamian influx into the Caucasus during the Neolithic, likely from Uruk period, I am actually convinced that all of Y3020 came together. By Chalcolithic I would imagine that Y11200 was already in the areas of Proto Maykop like Meshoko (which was also Y3020*), from Bronze Age spreads in multiple directions make entire sense.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines Confirmed: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Principe For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-23-2020),  hartaisarlag (07-21-2020),  J Man (06-22-2020),  sheepslayer (06-22-2020)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    92
    Sex
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z30682
    mtDNA (M)
    H1j4

    United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    My honest opinion and based on the data we have so far, well there was Y11200* found in Maykop, I think Y11200 was part of a Mesopotamian influx into the Caucasus during the Neolithic, likely from Uruk period, I am actually convinced that all of Y3020 came together. By Chalcolithic I would imagine that Y11200 was already in the areas of Proto Maykop like Meshoko (which was also Y3020*), from Bronze Age spreads in multiple directions make entire sense.
    You're right about Y11200 being in the Maykop area earlier. One of the Meshoko guys actually tested positive for Y11200, I think it was sample I2056. Y11200 proliferated after at least 5050 BC according to YFull, and that sample was dated to around 4500 BC. However, due to there being vestiges of the branch in Saudi Arabia, I'm inclined to believe that even Z30677 formed closer to Mesopotamia, splitting into the Caucasus-bound Y20512 and the esoteric Z30682, which holds many more Jews and Portuguese islanders than it does Chechens.

    I think many branches under CTS6804 formed in the Caucasus, but Y11200 seems to reflect multiple waves of different branches being swept into the Caucasus by some continued impulse in their urheimat further south.
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sheepslayer For This Useful Post:

     J Man (06-22-2020),  Principe (06-22-2020)

  7. #4
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,403
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z482>Y15245
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2b5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z36>Y156527

    Italy Italy Sicily Italy Two Sicilies Vatican Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepslayer View Post
    You're right about Y11200 being in the Maykop area earlier. One of the Meshoko guys actually tested positive for Y11200, I think it was sample I2056. Y11200 proliferated after at least 5050 BC according to YFull, and that sample was dated to around 4500 BC. However, due to there being vestiges of the branch in Saudi Arabia, I'm inclined to believe that even Z30677 formed closer to Mesopotamia, splitting into the Caucasus-bound Y20512 and the esoteric Z30682, which holds many more Jews and Portuguese islanders than it does Chechens.


    I think many branches under CTS6804 formed in the Caucasus, but Y11200 seems to reflect multiple waves of different branches being swept into the Caucasus by some continued impulse in their urheimat further south.
    We will see when more data comes through, seeing Y11200 that old does give higher odds.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines Confirmed: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Principe For This Useful Post:

     J Man (06-22-2020),  sheepslayer (06-22-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,119
    Sex
    Location
    Brazil
    Ethnicity
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    Nationality
    Brazilian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+
    mtDNA (M)
    H1ao1

    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    Normal J distribution. Several other branches have more or less the same distribution in the last 8000 years.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    92
    Sex
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z30682
    mtDNA (M)
    H1j4

    United States of America
    Y11200.png
    Made a sketch of the FTDNA haplotree of Y11200. If anyone uses SNP Tracker they'll be familiar with these colors. Blue SNPs were formed during the Neolithic/Chalcolithic, while teal are from the Bronze Age and greens are from the Iron Age. Yellow mutations are from during the Roman period.
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to sheepslayer For This Useful Post:

     J Man (06-26-2020)

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    92
    Sex
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z30682
    mtDNA (M)
    H1j4

    United States of America
    Here are my SNPs, I figured I would just line them up so I could have a solid reference. Also figured I'd post the chart here because it seems to shed some light on the history of Y11200:
    anthrogenica.png

    I've been interested in the structure of this phylogenetic tree, particularly the way it splits and the time frame. Couple things to note:

    1. Check out where the major discontinuities are. 2 big events in the Mesolithic, 2 Neolithic, and 1 Bronze. I recognize that these aren't real "events" as much as they are trends in observed data (every man has his own branch but most aren't tested), but still. Being able to date the big splits helps bind the mutations to historical context, and it produces some cool results.

    2. The "Spread during" column is taken from the recent bound of YFull's 95% confidence interval for the formation of each branch (the "formed before" date). Whichever period this date falls in, I list the subsequent period as the one during which the branch "proliferated." If a mutation only formed before a certain date, it must exist afterward. Ancient DNA from the "formation period" should be sought after and regarded as basal, while DNA from the period after that (i.e. the "spread period") demonstrates where these people went after the branch formed. It's a very speculative approach, but also safe approach with a few useful guarantees.

    Got my data from the Block Tree, via http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/treeExplorer.html . Indispensable tool
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sheepslayer For This Useful Post:

     J Man (07-20-2020),  Lupriac (07-22-2020)

  14. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    92
    Sex
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z30682
    mtDNA (M)
    H1j4

    United States of America
    New Neolithic split at level Z30677
    Untitled.png
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

  15. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    92
    Sex
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z30682
    mtDNA (M)
    H1j4

    United States of America
    New match from Iraq joins Late Bronze Age branch BY44714, down to level BY44562/Y142842. According to STRs the branch will coalesce closer to AD 1000. The Chechens will progress the clade into a new split, leaving the Iraqi match at BY44562* to find more matches in the Fertile Crescent
    genica.png

    PS: Did some digging on Russian websites. The text in the two Y142842 Chechens' FTDNA blurbs translate to "Qurayshi Arabs," so that seems to narrow things down quite a bit. The proportion of self-proclaimed Arab descendants and other Levant peoples keeps growing in this branch. I'd say it's about on par with all the hidden Georgians in the STRs. Currently figuring out which STRs each branch has in common.
    Most of my family is from Tennessee, though a few of my ancestors are from adjacent areas of North Carolina and Georgia. My paternal line is positive for Z30682, underneath J-Z7671 and Y11200.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sheepslayer For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-23-2020),  hartaisarlag (08-21-2020)

  17. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    922
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-BY173375
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-FGC18222
    mtDNA (P)
    H7e

    Anyone know what PGA4 signifies under J-Y63950?
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-23-2020),  sheepslayer (08-23-2020)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •