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Thread: What haplogroup and language did Brygian invasion Balkans bring?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Phrygians and Mysians are mentioned in the Iliad as already being in Anatolia during the Trojan war by Homer. There is no way that a 500BC origin accounts for them, that is obviously way too late.
    During the trojan war 1185BC , the lands in asia minor where all held my Hittites , except the coast south of Troy which was mycenean ruled .................are you saying that Phygians where under Hittiite rule

    The Phygian-Lydian wars of circa 500BC are documented by historians


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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    During the trojan war 1185BC , the lands in asia minor where all held my Hittites , except the coast south of Troy which was mycenean ruled .................are you saying that Phygians where under Hittiite rule

    The Phygian-Lydian wars of circa 500BC are documented by historians
    Homer said it. Phrygian language is attested in Anatolia since at least 8th Century BC

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Homer said it. Phrygian language is attested in Anatolia since at least 8th Century BC
    Ok, so they moved from Europe to asia minor between 800bc and the end of the trojan war or end of the hittite empire circa 1100BC.....what are we saying?


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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Ok, so they moved from Europe to asia minor between 800bc and the end of the trojan war or end of the hittite empire circa 1100BC.....what are we saying?
    They were already in Anatolia at the time of the Trojan War. I don't see whats unclear about this statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    They were already in Anatolia at the time of the Trojan War. I don't see whats unclear about this statement.
    So, you are saying they are part of the Hittite empire , most probably a vassal of Hittites


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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    So, you are saying they are part of the Hittite empire , most probably a vassal of Hittites
    I'm not. All I'm saying is that they were in Anatolia during the time of the Trojan war, which is more or less not controversial.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I'm not. All I'm saying is that they were in Anatolia during the time of the Trojan war, which is more or less not controversial.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygi...ettlements.jpg

    Phrygia in anatolia ....east of Lydia and south of thracian lands Bithynia

    These scholars seek instead to trace the Phrygians' origins among the many nations of western Anatolia who were subject to the Hittites.[12]
    Phillip Clapham, "Hittites and Phrygians", C&AH IV:2, pp.71–121


    maybe they where called Masa
    https://www.ancient.eu/image/248/map...ire-c-1300-bc/


    scholars state
    Phrygia from c. 1180 to 700 bce

    The early Phrygians probably were not organized in one strong and centrally governed kingdom. Their origins and the affiliations of their language are still enshrouded in mystery. Greek tradition—still in many cases the best source available—usually dates their migration into Anatolia from Europe about the period of the Trojan War (early 12th century bce), and the Greeks were convinced that the Phrygians came from Macedonia and Thrace. Thus, the Phrygian language once was believed to be related to Thracian or Illyrian. Most linguists, however, now view Phrygian as a separate Indo-European language that shares a number of iso glosses with ancient Greek.
    Last edited by vettor; 06-23-2020 at 09:11 PM.


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  9. #18
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    There are some who claim that there were two major expansions of the Bryges or Phrygians into Anatolia; the first being during the 2nd millennium BCE from the central or southern Balkans into western Anatolia by the ancestors of the Phrygians. The second expansion is believed to have occurred after the Trojan War or during the collapse of the Hittites in the 12th century BCE, with more groups from the Balkans settling in Anatolia. https://www.academia.edu/37262757/El...RICAL_EVIDENCE.

    The view that there was an earlier migration of the ancestors of the Phrygians into Anatolia is also suggested by the Iliad, which depicts the Phrygians as a group occupying a territory around the Sakarya River (Sangarius) in western Anatolia. They are also shown as being close allies with the Trojans with Queen Hecuba, the wife of King Priam and mother of Hector and Paris, herself being a Phrygian.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241

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  11. #19
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    "Skudra" are listed as one of the ethnicities enrolled into Darius the Great's Achaemenid army (placed in after "Saka" (Scythian) and before "Ionian with cap").

    I think it's fair to speculate that this is related to the Brygian Scydra, Kydrae, and Skodra in Albania. We need a good etymology for this, as I can find none on the web.


  12. #20
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    I'd like to point out that this is the ancient DNA forum, so if we are going to continue this conversation, we should connect it to aDNA evidence.

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