Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 46

Thread: which Jewish Groups closes to original israelites?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    61
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    West Uttar Pradesh
    Nationality
    India/UK

    which Jewish Groups closes to original israelites?

    Do we know which Jewish or any other ethnic group today is closes to the original Israelites of the Torah/Bible Dna/Genetics wise? Have there been any tests done to find out? When I was living in Saudi Arabia, I heard there are many Arab tribes who live in the North West of the country who are actually Jewish in origin, many actually might be the 12 lost tribes of Israel.

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    847
    Sex
    Location
    Central Florida
    Ethnicity
    Aegean Greek + NW Euro
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L26
    mtDNA (M)
    J1b1a

    Greece United States of America
    Romaniotes. Maybe Mustaarabi Syrian Jews are about as close but from what I remember they're mostly Romaniote-like themselves (but with Mesopotamian ancestry probably via Mizrahi gene flow from further east).

    As far as other ethnic groups, Samaritans and Levantine Christians.
    Last edited by Michalis Moriopoulos; 06-24-2020 at 07:49 PM.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

  3. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Michalis Moriopoulos For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (07-02-2020),  Erikl86 (06-24-2020),  grumpydaddybear (07-01-2020),  jonahst (06-25-2020),  jstephan (06-25-2020),  passenger (06-24-2020),  Power77 (06-24-2020),  Principe (06-24-2020),  tipirneni (06-24-2020)

  4. #3
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,398
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Ashkenazi Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-YP3924
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a1b1a
    mtDNA (P)
    K2a2a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    Do we know which Jewish or any other ethnic group today is closes to the original Israelites of the Torah/Bible Dna/Genetics wise? Have there been any tests done to find out? When I was living in Saudi Arabia, I heard there are many Arab tribes who live in the North West of the country who are actually Jewish in origin, many actually might be the 12 lost tribes of Israel.

    Depends at which stage.

    Are we talking about Iron Age, pre-Babylonian and Assyrian exile Israelites? (so early Israelites)

    Are we talking about post Babylonian Israelites/Judahites?

    Are we talking about Roman-era Judean Jews?

    Overall, the closest modern Torah-following adherents to early Israelites are Samaritans. Considering they follow pretty much the same 5 books that Jews deem the most sacred (albeit few differences in the versions of these books), written in a dialect of the same language (Samaritan Hebrew vs. Jewish Hebrew), and follow a lot of the same religious practices (circumcision on the 8th day, kosher laws, celebrate the three high holidays Jews celebrate - Rosh HaShana, Passover and Shavuot and name them the same way, and even follow a very similar calendar), I'd say they could be considered closest that could be to Jews not only culturally, but also to ancient Israelites genetically. Legally, in modern day Israel, they are treated as such in any case.

    Following them and also autosomally plotting in modern Levant are Egyptian Karaite Jews, but this could be because they have substantial Mesopotamian admixture which pulls them Eastward than where they would have plotted without that admixture.

    Followed after them are Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews - both plot extremely close to other Levantines but show shift toward East Mediterraneans in the case of Syrian Jews, and Mesopotamian in the case of Iraqi Jews.

    After that, Romaniote Jews seem to also plot close to the Levant.

    In my opinion, and this was the base of the premise which I held (and still does) when I started the now very long Western Jews thread which you can read here, I believe that when we'll find Jews from the closer period to the Roman exile, they'll already plot similar in some ways to either Syrian Jews/Romaniotes, or Aegean (or even Anatolian from ancient Asian Hellenes)-shifted Levantines.
    Check out my Hidden Content

  5. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to Erikl86 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-27-2020),  Aha (06-25-2020),  akash (06-24-2020),  Andrewid (06-24-2020),  Cascio (06-25-2020),  Claudio (07-02-2020),  grumpydaddybear (07-01-2020),  jkotl0327 (06-25-2020),  jonahst (06-25-2020),  jstephan (06-25-2020),  Michalis Moriopoulos (06-24-2020),  passenger (06-24-2020),  Power77 (06-24-2020),  Principe (06-24-2020),  R.Rocca (06-25-2020),  Reza (06-24-2020),  Riverman (06-25-2020),  Seabass (06-25-2020),  tipirneni (06-24-2020),  xenus (06-29-2020)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    849
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Z36123*
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Y2619
    mtDNA (P)
    H7

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Depends at which stage.

    Are we talking about Iron Age, pre-Babylonian and Assyrian exile Israelites? (so early Israelites)

    Are we talking about post Babylonian Israelites/Judahites?

    Are we talking about Roman-era Judean Jews?

    Overall, the closest modern Torah-following adherents to early Israelites are Samaritans. Considering they follow pretty much the same 5 books that Jews deem the most sacred (albeit few differences in the versions of these books), written in a dialect of the same language (Samaritan Hebrew vs. Jewish Hebrew), and follow a lot of the same religious practices (circumcision on the 8th day, kosher laws, celebrate the three high holidays Jews celebrate - Rosh HaShana, Passover and Shavuot and name them the same way, and even follow a very similar calendar), I'd say they could be considered closest that could be to Jews not only culturally, but also to ancient Israelites genetically. Legally, in modern day Israel, they are treated as such in any case.

    Following them and also autosomally plotting in modern Levant are Egyptian Karaite Jews, but this could be because they have substantial Mesopotamian admixture which pulls them Eastward than where they would have plotted without that admixture.

    Followed after them are Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews - both plot extremely close to other Levantines but show shift toward East Mediterraneans in the case of Syrian Jews, and Mesopotamian in the case of Iraqi Jews.

    After that, Romaniote Jews seem to also plot close to the Levant.

    In my opinion, and this was the base of the premise which I held (and still does) when I started the now very long Western Jews thread which you can read here, I believe that when we'll find Jews from the closer period to the Roman exile, they'll already plot similar in some ways to either Syrian Jews/Romaniotes, or Aegean (or even Anatolian from ancient Asian Hellenes)-shifted Levantines.
    Would you say Romaniotes plot closer than Libyan or Tunisian Jews?
    The clock indicates the moment—but what does eternity indicate?

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (06-24-2020),  Claudio (07-02-2020),  grumpydaddybear (07-01-2020),  jonahst (06-25-2020),  Power77 (06-24-2020),  Principe (06-24-2020)

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    61
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    West Uttar Pradesh
    Nationality
    India/UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Depends at which stage.

    Are we talking about Iron Age, pre-Babylonian and Assyrian exile Israelites? (so early Israelites)

    Are we talking about post Babylonian Israelites/Judahites?

    Are we talking about Roman-era Judean Jews?

    Overall, the closest modern Torah-following adherents to early Israelites are Samaritans. Considering they follow pretty much the same 5 books that Jews deem the most sacred (albeit few differences in the versions of these books), written in a dialect of the same language (Samaritan Hebrew vs. Jewish Hebrew), and follow a lot of the same religious practices (circumcision on the 8th day, kosher laws, celebrate the three high holidays Jews celebrate - Rosh HaShana, Passover and Shavuot and name them the same way, and even follow a very similar calendar), I'd say they could be considered closest that could be to Jews not only culturally, but also to ancient Israelites genetically. Legally, in modern day Israel, they are treated as such in any case.

    Following them and also autosomally plotting in modern Levant are Egyptian Karaite Jews, but this could be because they have substantial Mesopotamian admixture which pulls them Eastward than where they would have plotted without that admixture.

    Followed after them are Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews - both plot extremely close to other Levantines but show shift toward East Mediterraneans in the case of Syrian Jews, and Mesopotamian in the case of Iraqi Jews.

    After that, Romaniote Jews seem to also plot close to the Levant.

    In my opinion, and this was the base of the premise which I held (and still does) when I started the now very long Western Jews thread which you can read here, I believe that when we'll find Jews from the closer period to the Roman exile, they'll already plot similar in some ways to either Syrian Jews/Romaniotes, or Aegean (or even Anatolian from ancient Asian Hellenes)-shifted Levantines.
    Interesting, were the Samaritians always living in the present day land of Israel? or were they living in other parts of Middle East? didn't really know about them until today.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to akash For This Useful Post:

     grumpydaddybear (07-01-2020)

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    894
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    The Palestinian Beit Sahour are also an a good example of ancient israelites,thought they are probably arabicized Samaritans or something?I am not sure but they plot similar with Samaritans.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Johnny ola For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (07-02-2020)

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    849
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Z36123*
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Y2619
    mtDNA (P)
    H7

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    The Palestinian Beit Sahour are also an a good example of ancient israelites,thought they are probably arabicized Samaritans or something?I am not sure but they plot similar with Samaritans.
    Yes, they do, but worth noting that Samaritans are the only modern Levantine group that scores closer to Bronze Age Canaanites and Iron Age I-IIA Canaanites/Israelites than to later Levantine samples.
    The clock indicates the moment—but what does eternity indicate?

  13. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (07-02-2020),  Dewsloth (06-25-2020),  Erikl86 (06-24-2020),  grumpydaddybear (07-01-2020),  jetshop (07-04-2020),  Johnny ola (06-24-2020),  jonahst (06-25-2020),  Power77 (06-25-2020),  Principe (06-24-2020),  Riverman (06-25-2020),  Seabass (06-25-2020),  xenus (06-29-2020)

  14. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    894
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Yes, they do, but worth noting that Samaritans are the only modern Levantine group that scores closer to Bronze Age Canaanites and Iron Age I-IIA Canaanites/Israelites than to later Levantine samples.
    Ofc.When i am playing with modern and ancient samples on G25 Samaritans coming first always(or at least the majority).I have to respect them for being isolated for so many ages.As i know Druze people are against war,millitary and stuff like that.Are Samaritans a similar situation or they gonna fight for Israel?Does Jews consider them as their own people?
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.5780% / 0.01578004
    40.2 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    32.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    16.2 Levant_Baqah_BA
    11.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 2.8082% / 0.02808208
    67.2 Greek_Trabzon
    24.2 Samaritan
    7.4 Georgian_Imer
    1.2 Sardinian

  15. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    847
    Sex
    Location
    Central Florida
    Ethnicity
    Aegean Greek + NW Euro
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-L26
    mtDNA (M)
    J1b1a

    Greece United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    I believe that when we'll find Jews from the closer period to the Roman exile, they'll already plot similar in some ways to either Syrian Jews/Romaniotes, or Aegean (or even Anatolian from ancient Asian Hellenes)-shifted Levantines.
    Interestingly enough, isn't this basically what Nusayri/Alawites are genetically?
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Michalis Moriopoulos For This Useful Post:

     Erikl86 (06-24-2020),  grumpydaddybear (07-01-2020),  hartaisarlag (06-24-2020),  Power77 (06-25-2020)

  17. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    461
    Sex

    I think Tunisian Jews are a decent contender to Romaniotes based off this thread question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny ola View Post
    Ofc.When i am playing with modern and ancient samples on G25 Samaritans coming first always(or at least the majority).I have to respect them for being isolated for so many ages.As i know Druze people are against war,millitary and stuff like that.Are Samaritans a similar situation or they gonna fight for Israel?Does Jews consider them as their own people?
    The Druze, several have also served in the IDF and still do today. They're interesting people. I can't speak for them, but one guy I met in my country who's parents are Israeli Druze had pretty neutral feelings towards Israel, more good than anything and had a good impression of Jews and other Arabs.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Seabass For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (07-02-2020),  hartaisarlag (06-25-2020),  Johnny ola (06-25-2020),  jonahst (06-25-2020),  Power77 (06-25-2020)

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-23-2019, 10:49 AM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-03-2019, 06:38 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-10-2018, 05:42 PM
  4. Replies: 91
    Last Post: 11-24-2017, 06:43 PM
  5. "Hébreux noirs israélites"!?
    By Power77 in forum French
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-16-2016, 09:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •