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Thread: Researching Possible Jewish Ancestry-GED painting- NEED HELP PLEASE! :)

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    Researching Possible Jewish Ancestry-GED painting- NEED HELP PLEASE! :)

    Hi,

    I will try and keep this to the point as possible but I really could use expert's interpretation of what I am seeing and how to further validate this.

    So FT dna gave me 0% Jewish (my origins). Places like dna.land give me 9.7% Ashkenazi (I know ignore it lol). GED Match only gives me 3.5% on the jtest with nothing in oracle(I know not not to take their % to heart, but I heard really good things about the accuracy of GED match's visuals/paintings)

    HOWEVER, I have a fair amount of Jewish Matches everywhere I uploaded my data including GED M. (FF for FTDNA also gives me Jewish matches, also My Heritage, DNAland, living DNA). Matches range with a total cm from 8-30.(for example like 17 with one having 10 another 7). Here is the weird thing. When I look at the areas where I match these folks, I am consistently painted with either EAST MED/WEST ASIAN/MIDDLE EAST/WEST MED or more often a combination of these. I have enclosed some screenshots with the key of colors if someone can tell me if this is significant of a possible Jewish ancestor or not. It's sort of confusing because I am painted much less in EAST MED/WEST ASIAN/MIDDLE E than I am colors RED YELLOW BROWN which are usually in the background. I just want to make sure I am looking at things the correct way.


    I'm still really new to this, so I don't know how to further validate these matches either, Triangulation? Phasing? I'm still figuring out how to do these things except for my Heritage which triangulates for you with their tool lol. I'm waiting on 23 and me results to see if they pick up on something, in the meantime I am enjoying learning all this, but I definitely need and welcome input. Paintings attached.(Sorry they get a little less organized at the end of the doc. I have about 10 more matches I have done this for)
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Melissay122; 06-24-2020 at 10:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissay122 View Post
    Hi,

    I will try and keep this to the point as possible but I really could use expert's interpretation of what I am seeing and how to further validate this.

    So FT dna gave me 0% Jewish (my origins). Places like dna.land give me 9.7% Ashkenazi (I know ignore it lol). GED Match only gives me 3.5% on the jtest with nothing in oracle(I know not not to take their % to heart, but I heard really good things about the accuracy of GED match's visuals/paintings)

    HOWEVER, I have a fair amount of Jewish Matches everywhere I uploaded my data including GED M. (FF for FTDNA also gives me Jewish matches, also My Heritage, DNAland, living DNA). Matches range with a total cm from 8-30.(for example like 17 with one having 10 another 7). Here is the weird thing. When I look at the areas where I match these folks, I am consistently painted with either EAST MED/WEST ASIAN/MIDDLE EAST/WEST MED or more often a combination of these. I have enclosed some screenshots with the key of colors if someone can tell me if this is significant of a possible Jewish ancestor or not. It's sort of confusing because I am painted much less in EAST MED/WEST ASIAN/MIDDLE E than I am colors RED YELLOW BROWN which are usually in the background. I just want to make sure I am looking at things the correct way.


    I'm still really new to this, so I don't know how to further validate these matches either, Triangulation? Phasing? I'm still figuring out how to do these things except for my Heritage which triangulates for you with their tool lol. I'm waiting on 23 and me results to see if they pick up on something, in the meantime I am enjoying learning all this, but I definitely need and welcome input. Paintings attached.(Sorry they get a little less organized at the end of the doc. I have about 10 more matches I have done this for)
    I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at with those screenshots - are they all yours? Your matches'? However, if you have "fully" Jewish matches that match you on segments with that combination of categories in Eurogenes calcs (I'm assuming these were all from JTest, but K13 would also show strong East Med, West Med and West Asian for Western Jews) then I'd say that's a pretty strong sign that you have some minor Jewish ancestry. You might also compare these results with MyHeritage, since it's easy to check matching segments.

    How many Ashkenazi matches do you have in MyHeritage? Do most of them seem to be fully Ashkenazi? Do the segments you share mostly triangulate with other Ashkenazi matches?

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    Apologies yes my matches. This is from the jtest. These are my chromosome paintings in the areas where I match my matches that I could either check their jtest at ged match(21-25% so far) or go by their ethnic mix at my heritage. Sorry I just started putting this together and I wasn’t sure what my next step would be. It sounds like These matches need to be triangulated.in my heritage I only have like 57 matches with Ashkenazi on their ancestry composition. The ones in these pictures are arounf 50-60% That made me think I could be related to them via Polish/Galicia where we know great grandparents lived. I wasn’t sure just on my own interpretation of the painting looked towards Minor Jewish ancestry or relation through a Euro Ancestor.
    Yes in my heritage they are triangulating with eachother and starting to now in ged match as I go through them. Those I am going through one by one. I hope I clarified a little better and I really appreciate the input.
    Last edited by Melissay122; 06-25-2020 at 01:38 AM.

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    I have a similar situation with several of my family members. I know my wife has minor Jewish ancestry, as the ancestor is known from family history and paper sources through her mother. Also, both my father and hers match large numbers of Ashkenazi with triangulated matches. They all have these same kinds of subsegments you are describing and I can find other Ashkenazi matches by doing Segment Search in Gedmatch on these admixed areas that I can see with chromosome painting. These segments also include Siberian, East Asian, and Archaic or North African admixture in addition to the types you describe. I don't know the specifics on paper for our fathers, but I continue to research to get confirmation. I think you are using the tools correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    I have a similar situation with several of my family members. I know my wife has minor Jewish ancestry, as the ancestor is known from family history and paper sources through her mother. Also, both my father and hers match large numbers of Ashkenazi with triangulated matches. They all have these same kinds of subsegments you are describing and I can find other Ashkenazi matches by doing Segment Search in Gedmatch on these admixed areas that I can see with chromosome painting. These segments also include Siberian, East Asian, and Archaic or North African admixture in addition to the types you describe. I don't know the specifics on paper for our fathers, but I continue to research to get confirmation. I think you are using the tools correctly.
    I have a document attached in the OP that shows the painting if you want to look. I don't have the pictures of the ones including siberian on this document, but I have some of those too. Thanks for commenting. I am pretty new to this. I just started tonight using segment search to hone in on these areas. Great Idea and Much appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissay122 View Post
    I have a document attached in the OP that shows the painting if you want to look. I don't have the pictures of the ones including siberian on this document, but I have some of those too. Thanks for commenting. I am pretty new to this. I just started tonight using segment search to hone in on these areas. Great Idea and Much appreciated!
    I wasn't able to open the file on my phone, so I will have a look when I get home in a couple of days. Here is a post from a thread I started about using Eurogenes K36 for subsegment analysis where I analyze one of my father's segments of this type:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post166037

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    I'm by no means an expert but I think that 8 to 30cM is not much, especially if you have confirmed Polish and Ukranian ancestry. I have very similar numbers and I haven't been able to confirm through which line I match them either. Below is a screen capture, of my clusters using 23andme data. The only big cluster that I have is jewish, the biggest match is 38.6cM (13.8cM longest segment). I eagerly await the experts' opinion on your case because it's very similar to mine.
    Screenshot_20200625-203159_Chrome.jpg
    Updated Dodecad K12b
    Distance: 1.5544% / 1.55438855
    Sources: 317 Cycles: 317
    69.0% Cantabria
    14.6% Ashkenazi
    10.0% Belarusian
    5.4% Moroccan
    0.8% Yemen_Jews
    0.2% Bantu

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    @Randwulf - I will try and insert image instead of attaching so you can see an example (if it works). This isn't my closest match or one with the longest segment, but a pretty good example of what I am seeing. Thank you so much for the link about the K36. I will definitely make use of it.

    @Ibericus- I definitely have some confirmed history via paper trail that my Great Grandmother came from Podhajce/Pidhaitsi-Galicia. At least that is what she lists as her place of origin via travel/immigration documents that my cousin has. (I am picking up the research where she left off). I cannot find anything on her parents, but her father is listed as a Vasyl(Vasal)Korol/Karol? (not very legible). We have nothing going further back. We also know the man she married here in the states(my great grandfather) was Rusyn and Greek Orthodox(Apologies if I don't have the correct term).

    I should have clarified that I mean the longest individual segs are between 8-30,(although I really am focusing on those over 10cm),not that these numbers mean total segs if I am saying it correctly. However, I read that these amount aren't all that long either. In fact, whether Ashkenazim or not, I don't seem to have ANY close matches in any of the databases so far, maybe anyone close to me has not tested (at least at not Family tree DNA). That is part of the reason I am excited for my 23 and me results that are in the genotyping phase right now. I am not familiar with all the tools they have at 23 but Hopefully something can be uncovered there. I really appreciate the feedback and I hope you also get some validation in this area of research as well.

    Here is one example.(The segs are not that long there but there is 3 of them and this example nicely displays what my chromosome areas look like with my Ashkenazi matches)
    june25new snip.PNG

    key.PNG
    Last edited by Melissay122; 06-25-2020 at 08:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissay122 View Post
    @Randwulf - I will try and insert image instead of attaching so you can see an example (if it works). This isn't my closest match or one with the longest segment, but a pretty good example of what I am seeing. Thank you so much for the link about the K36. I will definitely make use of it.

    @Ibericus- I definitely have some confirmed history via paper trail that my Great Grandmother came from Podhajce/Pidhaitsi-Galicia. At least that is what she lists as her place of origin via travel/immigration documents that my cousin has. (I am picking up the research where she left off). I cannot find anything on her parents, but her father is listed as a Vasyl(Vasal)Korol/Karol? (not very legible). We have nothing going further back. We also know the man she married here in the states(my great grandfather) was Rusyn and Greek Orthodox(Apologies if I don't have the correct term).

    I should have clarified that I mean the longest individual segs are between 8-30,(although I really am focusing on those over 10cm),not that these numbers mean total segs if I am saying it correctly. However, I read that these amount aren't all that long either. In fact, whether Ashkenazim or not, I don't seem to have ANY close matches in any of the databases so far, maybe anyone close to me has not tested (at least at not Family tree DNA). That is part of the reason I am excited for my 23 and me results that are in the genotyping phase right now. I am not familiar with all the tools they have at 23 but Hopefully something can be uncovered there. I really appreciate the feedback and I hope you also get some validation in this area of research as well.

    Here is one example.(The segs are not that long there but there is 3 of them and this example nicely displays what my chromosome areas look like with my Ashkenazi matches)
    june25new snip.PNG

    key.PNG
    Yes, those seem to be consistent. If you match Ashkenazi kits on Gedmatch at these locations, you can paint the two kits together on one chromosome as an option on the admixture run and it will produce a painting of just the matching portion between the two kits, painting the non-matching portion as black. Then you can see if you match on Euro or non-Euro admixture between the kits.

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    Randwulf has done a good job covering things. Triangulation and Segment Search will be useful for you. If you need some help using these tools, Family History Fanatics has a great YouTube series on how to use both of these tools, among other GEDMatch features. Once you identify a match from comparing two kits on a certain chromosome and identifying overlap, you can then use that match to search for more.

    How to Triangulate Your DNA Matches Using GEDmatch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceYGv6RNfDE

    Searching for Segments on GEDmatch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlyuoHRnsA&t=635s
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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