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Thread: Researching Possible Jewish Ancestry-GED painting- NEED HELP PLEASE! :)

  1. #11
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    Wow guys, this is super helpful ! I definitely am noticing a cluster of kits overlapping on one of these sections of my 22nd Chromosome and also on 15th so far.

    Regarding this:
    "Yes, those seem to be consistent. If you match Ashkenazi kits on Gedmatch at these locations, you can paint the two kits together on one chromosome as an option on the admixture run and it will produce a painting of just the matching portion between the two kits, painting the non-matching portion as black. Then you can see if you match on Euro or non-Euro admixture between the kits."

    Thank you so much! I didn't know this could be done! Oh and these matches I am working on are all from GED Match so I am really curious to try this out.

    @Kiwi- I will definitely watch these videos as so far I have just been trying to play around with GED to figure things out. This is exactly what I needed to learn.

    A million thanks for the tips and input!

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  3. #12
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    Input welcome: so I was advised by someone with extensive genetic genealogy to be cautious with chromosome 22 as there can be a pile up of matches that don’t triangulate in that area Of 22. Having said that I ran the triangulation tool at ged match for me on 22 and it produced a big list that contained some of the people from the list of people I gathered manually (manually as in running a one to one and writing down where I match them) and got rid of some others. My question is this: If I run the triangulation tool and if it outputs a list, does that mean everyone on that list has triangulated in some way(ie not a false match) with me and someone else?(I assume the right side of the list is who they triangulate with along with me of course)
    So If I identified them manually and they don’t show up on this list, then those people would be my false matches, correct ? If they show up in the list in the triangulation tool, then they are a valid match? I hope I am explaining ok because finding out that some of these chromosomes can be questionable has me second guessing, so any input is valid. Is there anything else to consider?

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissay122 View Post
    Input welcome: so I was advised by someone with extensive genetic genealogy to be cautious with chromosome 22 as there can be a pile up of matches that don’t triangulate in that area Of 22. Having said that I ran the triangulation tool at ged match for me on 22 and it produced a big list that contained some of the people from the list of people I gathered manually (manually as in running a one to one and writing down where I match them) and got rid of some others. My question is this: If I run the triangulation tool and if it outputs a list, does that mean everyone on that list has triangulated in some way(ie not a false match) with me and someone else?(I assume the right side of the list is who they triangulate with along with me of course)
    So If I identified them manually and they don’t show up on this list, then those people would be my false matches, correct ? If they show up in the list in the triangulation tool, then they are a valid match? I hope I am explaining ok because finding out that some of these chromosomes can be questionable has me second guessing, so any input is valid. Is there anything else to consider?
    Pile-up matches happen for a few different reasons, but they will triangulate and will cause you to look like someone shares recent ancestry with you when the real common ancestor is more ancient than a match of the given size usually indicates. In your subject here, the Ashkenazi are said to have had a population bottleneck in the past so that there are a lot of common segments getting passed around within the community. So, for example, even though a 15 cM match with dozens of Ashkenazi probably indicates that you have an Ashkenazi ancestor (it serves as a kind of flag), you may not share a recent ancestor with those dozens of individuals that "pile up" at that location because this segment is getting passed around intact a lot.

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  6. #14
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    This article may help to explain how Ashkenazi DNA works in regards to matches.

    https://medium.com/@CleverTitleTK/no...e-857f873399ff
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at with those screenshots - are they all yours? Your matches'? However, if you have "fully" Jewish matches that match you on segments with that combination of categories in Eurogenes calcs (I'm assuming these were all from JTest, but K13 would also show strong East Med, West Med and West Asian for Western Jews) then I'd say that's a pretty strong sign that you have some minor Jewish ancestry. You might also compare these results with MyHeritage, since it's easy to check matching segments.

    How many Ashkenazi matches do you have in MyHeritage? Do most of them seem to be fully Ashkenazi? Do the segments you share mostly triangulate with other Ashkenazi matches?
    Would different proportions of those 3 components indicate different segment origins in the case of k13, or would any combination point most strongly to a Jewish origin of a segment? i.e. West Med/Wed Asian or strictly West Asian.
    Last edited by andyouare; 06-27-2020 at 02:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyouare View Post
    Would different proportions of those 3 components indicate different segment origins in the case of k13, or would any combination point most strongly to a Jewish origin of a segment? i.e. West Med/Wed Asian or strictly West Asian.
    I'm no expert in this. Maybe others will chime in. The top K13 categories for Ashkenazim are East Med, West Med, North Atlantic and West Asian (usually, but not necessarily in that order), plus Red Sea and Baltic. Results are roughly similar for Eastern Sephardim. These are not evenly distributed in chromosome painting for Ashkenazim or Sephardim - there are segments that are entirely East Med, North Atlantic, etc. - so I'm not sure if there is a typical pattern for segments shared between an individual from these groups and a predominantly non-Jewish individual. A segment combining ribbons of East Med, West Med, West Asian and Red Sea and/or North Atlantic seems like a more tell-tale sign of a Jewish origin than any one of those in isolation, but I'm not sure.

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  11. #17
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    I think the most reliable and consistent results come from 23andme if its about Ashkenazi ancestry. If its real, you should score AJ there too and can compare in detail on which chromosomes you share with your AJ matches.

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  13. #18
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    Melissay122, I have read the data that you expose. The method you are using to verify Jewish ancestry is correct. The priority is to have matches with a minimum of 8 cM of the largest shared segment (obviously, if your real matches have 15 or 30 cM is better), you should also look at shared SNPs in that segment (for a match, at least 800 SNPs must be shared in fragments of 7 cM, better even if there are 1000 SNPs, less than 800 are false matches); in addition, they must be able to triangulate in the same segment. Be careful with chromosomes like 22, which give false matches, 6 for example also has a region that gives wrong results. Chromosome painting is also a valuable tool. I also recommend you contact Kevin Brook to help you verify possible Jewish ancestry, Ashkenazi in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm no expert in this. Maybe others will chime in. The top K13 categories for Ashkenazim are East Med, West Med, North Atlantic and West Asian (usually, but not necessarily in that order), plus Red Sea and Baltic. Results are roughly similar for Eastern Sephardim. These are not evenly distributed in chromosome painting for Ashkenazim or Sephardim - there are segments that are entirely East Med, North Atlantic, etc. - so I'm not sure if there is a typical pattern for segments shared between an individual from these groups and a predominantly non-Jewish individual. A segment combining ribbons of East Med, West Med, West Asian and Red Sea and/or North Atlantic seems like a more tell-tale sign of a Jewish origin than any one of those in isolation, but I'm not sure.
    Exactly. Normally, if share segment have high concentration of East Med and Red Sea in chromosome painting, is the best indication of Jewish ancestry. For this matter, is very useful also EUTest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rober_tce View Post
    Exactly. Normally, if share segment have high concentration of East Med and Red Sea in chromosome painting, is the best indication of Jewish ancestry. For this matter, is very useful also EUTest.
    Wouldn't trust that. Both gives false positives and false negatives. Saw some comparisons and while 23andme nailed it to +/- 1-2 %, anything working with East Mediterranean/Red Sea or the EUTest was quite often off by a lot. Recognised AJ were there's none and vice versa.

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