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Thread: Who do modern-day Dutch, Frisian, and Flemish people descend from?

  1. #61
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    North Sea/Irish Sea
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    I1 Z140+ A21912+
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    V
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    R1b L21+ L371+
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    J1c2l

    Wales England Cornwall Scotland Ireland Normandie
    Quote Originally Posted by ffoucart View Post
    The only I lineage found so far among Steppe pastoralists is a subclade of I2.
    Great to read everyone's views and I'm still hoping we get some real aDNA clues on pre-Bronze Age I1 soon. If you're interested in the meantime, deadly77's ancient I1 map is the best resource I know of. Well worth a look.
    Living DNA's former Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,100 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  3. #62
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    Until we find earlier I1/later pre-I1 samples, anything is possible.

    Pre-I1 could theoretically have joined that I2 clade in the steppe and been a minor CWC linage that hasn't been sampled yet. Or it could have been hiding in a late HG population like PWC, or some Ertebølle survivors in north German wetlands, or Swifterbant or whoever was inhabiting the now submerged lands east of SE Jutland/in the Helgoland Bight.

    My guess above is based on that "hiding" is easiest in areas with high Neolithic population densities but low aDNA sampling.

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angantyr View Post
    Yes, I read that post. I guess the high seemingly SHG-like admixture that the Sorsum individual intrigues you? One thing is though that now we have several other Swedish TRB genomes, and the Gökhem ones stand out as having higher SHG admixture than other Swedish MN farmers (Saxtorp, Ansarve). So wherever this HG admixture came from, it wasn't found among all TRB farmers, including ones that lived in what had just recently been Ertebølle territory.
    In this respect this is the crucial quote of Frank N:
    The Sorsum sample additionally suggests a sizeable WHG/SHG component in the TRB Tiefstichkeramik sphere that isn’t fully represented by the Gökhem samples, and most likely represents Swifterband-Erteboelle adstrate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Great to read everyone's views and I'm still hoping we get some real aDNA clues on pre-Bronze Age I1 soon. If you're interested in the meantime, deadly77's ancient I1 map is the best resource I know of. Well worth a look.
    That's an interesting map. Especially the mesolithic pre-I1 in Spain, geographically close to the Azillian sample that could be modeled as half El Miron and was assigned pre-I1, and genetically closer to El Miron than Chan. Maybe I1 originated in SW Europe among the Magdalenians.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...0/F2.large.jpg
    Last edited by epoch; 07-03-2020 at 09:32 AM.

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