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Thread: The case for E-M123* (without E-M34 coming out of Israel, Specifically)

  1. #211
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    Azerbaijan
    Phoenicians were carrying E
    Beirut SFI-477 E-CTS567 (2209-2089 ybp), Sidon E-L677 (900-800 ybp), ancient Natufians and so on support ancient presence of E-M35 in Canaan.

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     Targum (12-02-2022)

  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Wasn’t there Israeli MLBA samples that were E-M123? Considering those MLBA Israelis were Canaanites I wouldn’t be surprised if their Phonecians cousins carried it and possibly spread it as well
    Yes there of course Phoenicians would be too E-M123
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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  5. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    E-V22 isn’t an ethnic Egyptian haplogroup.Horners carry it and even one of the South Cushitic Pastoral_N samples in Kenya carried it
    Okay but we can said it's shared between Egyptian and Ethiopian ?
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

  6. #214
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8805
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8922
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    KEN_Pastoral_N:I8918
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
    mtDNA (M)
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    Okay but we can said it's shared between Egyptian and Ethiopian ?
    Between Ethnic Egyptians,various ethnic groups in the Sudan,various Cushitic descended groups in the Horn and parts of SE Africa
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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     capsian (11-30-2022)

  8. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Wasn’t there Israeli MLBA samples that were E-M123? Considering those MLBA Israelis were Canaanites I wouldn’t be surprised if their Phonecians cousins carried it and possibly spread it as well
    Of course you will find it in Palestine, do you know how many migrations happened to those areas? Nothing to do with Phoenicians, Phoenicians are only J, no ancient evidence supports them as anything else. And the northern Levant is well tested so we would know by now

  9. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    Beirut SFI-477 E-CTS567 (2209-2089 ybp), Sidon E-L677 (900-800 ybp), ancient Natufians and so on support ancient presence of E-M35 in Canaan.
    What does natufians have to do with Phoenicians? In the northern levant we see a decrease of the natufian component and the introduction of other components

  10. #217
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8805
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8922
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    KEN_Pastoral_N:I8918
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
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    Somaliland Yemen Ethiopia
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    Of course you will find it in Palestine, do you know how many migrations happened to those areas? Nothing to do with Phoenicians, Phoenicians are only J, no ancient evidence supports them as anything else. And the northern Levant is well tested so we would know by now
    I doubt any ethnic group has only one haplogroup not even extremely patriarchal bottle necked nomadic populations of Arabia or the Horn are like that.They (Phonecians) definitely had plethora of lineages with E-M183 being one of them, don’t see why Southern Levantines would have E-M123 and not Northern Levantines from the same speech community.
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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     hartaisarlag (11-30-2022)

  12. #218
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    Last edited by Qrts; 11-30-2022 at 08:42 PM.

  13. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    I doubt any ethnic group has only one haplogroup not even extremely patriarchal bottle necked nomadic populations of Arabia or the Horn are like that.They (Phonecians) definitely had plethora of lineages with E-M183 being one of them, don’t see why Southern Levantines would have E-M123 and not Northern Levantines from the same speech community.
    We are talking about a certain time period and empire who was most certainly underneath J ancient dna confirms this. Until ancient dna comes out supporting E it's not true. Even having one sample underneath E doesn't matter because the persons ancestors could have come from elsewhere and settled in the region, the original marker for Phoenicians is mainly J2a

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     capsian (11-30-2022)

  15. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    We are talking about a certain time period and empire who was most certainly underneath J ancient dna confirms this. Until ancient dna comes out supporting E it's not true. Even having one sample underneath E doesn't matter because the persons ancestors could have come from elsewhere and settled in the region, the original marker for Phoenicians is mainly J2a
    cus i don't agree with you , E-M123 is ancient in Near East and region Phoenicians there ancient DNA in Ebla belong in this subclade ( E-M123 ) with T-M70 and J2 and G2a ( I thinks too J1? )
    we need more ancient DNA in place origin Phoenicians
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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