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Thread: The case for E-M123* (without E-M34 coming out of Israel, Specifically)

  1. #201
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    aDNA Match (1st)
    gun012
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    gun011
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    gun002
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-A30032(xY141667)
    mtDNA (M)
    V25b*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    E is not tied to the Phoenician empire
    E-M123 is related with Phoenician
    of course Phoenician have high J1 and J2a
    Last edited by capsian; 11-30-2022 at 11:44 AM.
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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     Velislav (11-30-2022)

  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    E is not tied to the Phoenician empire
    E-L19 is belong a amazigh
    E-V22 and E-V12 Egyptian
    E-V32 Cushites
    E-L618 Thracians
    this about E-M35
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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     Abceff (11-30-2022),  Gentica277282 (11-30-2022),  Velislav (11-30-2022)

  5. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velislav View Post
    What is it in your opinion? And what else could have brought this in Europe, especially Western Europe? You can see the full list of countries here.

    Considering we have 5 samples from Sardinia + various other islands in the Med-sea + Tunis, I think it should be them, or at least this is my theory. Also, the big chunk of the concentration is in Iberia which seems to have the most ties with them. We can't be 100% sure but based on TMRCA and historical logic I don't have other option.
    The TMRCA doesn't support the theory, do we have any ancient Phoenician samples underneath E
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

  6. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    E-L19 is belong a amazigh
    E-V22 and E-V12 Egyptian
    E-V32 Cushites
    E-L618 Thracians
    this about E-M35
    cousin all we need to do is look at North Africa where the Phoenicians operated, what we have is rare J2a subclades, I have no doubt all Phoenicians were underneath J haplogroup and the majority belonged to J2a
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

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     capsian (11-30-2022)

  8. #205
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    Y-DNA (M)
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    Bulgaria European Union Romania
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    The TMRCA doesn't support the theory, do we have any ancient Phoenician samples underneath E
    This type of E (E-m123*) is less than 0.5% in modern populations where is present. I think this is the reason why it would never show up in ancient remains. So if not Phoenicians what else can migrate to Europe in the Late bronze age? This is something that I just don't know, that's why I am asking.

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     drobbah (11-30-2022)

  10. #206
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8922
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    KEN_Pastoral_N:I8918
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
    mtDNA (M)
    L0a1d1*
    Y-DNA (M)
    T-FGC92488
    mtDNA (P)
    L3d1a1

    Somaliland Yemen Ethiopia
    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    E-L19 is belong a amazigh
    E-V22 and E-V12 Egyptian
    E-V32 Cushites
    E-L618 Thracians
    this about E-M35
    E-V22 isn’t an ethnic Egyptian haplogroup.Horners carry it and even one of the South Cushitic Pastoral_N samples in Kenya carried it
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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     capsian (11-30-2022),  CopperAxe (11-30-2022),  Qrts (11-30-2022)

  12. #207
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8805
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    KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I8922
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    KEN_Pastoral_N:I8918
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
    mtDNA (M)
    L0a1d1*
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    L3d1a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    E-M123 is related with Phoenician
    of course Phoenician have high J1 and J2a
    Wasn’t there Israeli MLBA samples that were E-M123? Considering those MLBA Israelis were Canaanites I wouldn’t be surprised if their Phonecians cousins carried it and possibly spread it as well
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 1.3922% / 0.01392203
    53.4	KEN_Pastoral_N
    34.6	KEN_Pastoral_IA
    7.4	Saudi
    4.6	Taforalt
    
    
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.8058% / 0.02805777
    94.8	South/Central_Somali
    5.2	Saudi

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     capsian (11-30-2022)

  14. #208
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    M9a1b1

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    All tested Europeans of this subclade origin only from coastal countries (Balkans, France, Portugal) which fitswith Phoenician sea routes


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     Velislav (11-30-2022)

  16. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    All tested Europeans of this subclade origin only from coastal countries (Balkans, France, Portugal) which fitswith Phoenician sea routes

    Your reasoning is amazing and your map I've never seen anything like it you've convinced me that Phoenicians were carrying E.
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

  17. #210
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    Muslim Andalusi Sharqi Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I12514_AD_1096_Cov_43.70%_Dist:0.03148322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    All tested Europeans of this subclade origin only from coastal countries (Balkans, France, Portugal) which fitswith Phoenician sea routes

    Based on your map that doesn't fit for Balkans and France, they fit more with Greeks sea routes because of their colonies.
    Last edited by Aben Aboo; 11-30-2022 at 04:23 PM.
    23andMe, averages
     
    Distance: 0.0164% / 0.01636773 | R6P
    37.8 French_Chalosse
    17.4 BelgianA
    17.2 Berber_MAR_ERR
    12.9 Sicilian_East
    10.7 Polish_Kashubian
    4.0 Shetlandic
    Distance to closest:
    0.02643477 Spanish_CanariasLa_Palma



    Ancestry
     
    Distance: 0.0163% / 0.01634379 | R6P
    32.4 BelgianA
    28.8 French_Chalosse
    17.2 Berber_MAR_ERR
    10.0 Sicilian_East
    8.2 Polish_Kashubian
    3.4 Sardinian
    Distance to closest:
    0.02788822 Spanish_CanariasTenerife

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