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Thread: Update on my fathers ancestry

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstephan View Post
    The reason why it's today possible to detect some specific populations is because these populations have been isolated for a sufficient amount of time to form their own genetic pattern. But it's still not that simple, take for example French people, most calculators are still struggling to detect French ancestry, because French people share a large amounts of alleles with all their neighbors countries, so most of them end up with extra ancestry such as British, German, Spanish, Italian, Belgium on most calculators, because the French cluster overlap with many countries. For mixed people it's even more complicated, for example a half British / half Spanish person will most often be given the false information that his ancestry is French, a half Italian / half Polish person that his ancestry is from the Balkan, just because France shares a large amount of ancient ancestry with Spain and Britain, and the Balkan with Slavs and people that were there before the arrival of the Slavs in the Balkans.
    Thanks for the info. Before I get Global 25, is it a calculator like commercial testing that gives you an estimate on how (insert ethnicity here) you are or is it something else?

  2. #12
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    It's much more powerful and accurate. You will be able to model yourself indefinitely depending of your known ancestry using modern and ancient population references until you find the right fit, once you get a low distance with your model, means you are not far from your real ancestry. I didn’t play much with this because my ancestry is kind of one direction, but some members here are real experts and regularly post some models for people to experiment.
    Last edited by jstephan; 06-30-2020 at 09:27 PM.

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  4. #13
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    As someone who also has quite mixed ancestry, you can have a look at some of the models I've done to get an idea of what modelling looks like.
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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  6. #14
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    There is no such thing as a "genetic Norman" in modern England (unless they're a recent migrant from France), there is plenty of English with Norman surnames and it means nothing autosomally; just like how not every English with an Anglo-Saxon name is pure germanic or whatever. At best someone with a Norman surname could have a Y dna from Normandy but even that isn't certain.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayetooey View Post
    There is no such thing as a "genetic Norman" in modern England
    Bang on.
    I have Norman (well probably Norman-Brabantian (daddy) and Norman-Norman (mummy)) paternal and maternal surnames established in the same county in England from ... from, well before the Black Death. Back to Roger of Poitou, and those who were on top before King Stephen and the Anarchy.
    And do you know? The DNA merchants say I'm "Norf Ingerland, possibly West Norway" for pa, and bloody Swedish Finland for Ma. What??
    Went to Sweden once. Hated it. Full of trees. Not enough open ground to even run a horse.

    Almost all of my actual autosomal heritage is wretched miners of coal, ironstone, tin and copper, native to the Isles. To a quite surprising extent. The posh relatives lost out after the Reformation and were relentlessly fined out of their estates or sent away to Ireland/the New World (or hanged, disembowelled and burned; as any reasonable person obviously would do). Their humbler non-inheriting kin (us) ended up down 't pit, since nobody wants to marry a miner, except a miner's daughter. Lucky escape for me.
    Last edited by glentane; 07-01-2020 at 04:02 AM.

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayetooey View Post
    There is no such thing as a "genetic Norman" in modern England (unless they're a recent migrant from France), there is plenty of English with Norman surnames and it means nothing autosomally; just like how not every English with an Anglo-Saxon name is pure germanic or whatever. At best someone with a Norman surname could have a Y dna from Normandy but even that isn't certain.
    Yes, and even if a person did have a line in their family with a well (yDNA) tested (but still very uncertain) Norman surname, and they had autosomal matches with others who are on that yDNA line; it’s still extremely unlikely that those autosomes would come from the historic Normans.
    “Nought may endure but mutability” —Percy Bysshe Shelley

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  12. #17
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    The great thing about Norman aristocracy is that they owned houses and land - with names.
    Either from their surnames or from the names of the places they lived in you can find all sorts of interesting history.
    And even visit them online if you want.
    I have done this so far mostly with my humbler folk who have definable locations.
    And even travelled to some of the places they lived.

    But some of my aristocratic ancestors happened to have taken on a hill just after the conquest.
    Not only was it high, overlooking a vast swathe of land on which many of my other people lived for a thousand years, but later it was very important in mining of two very different substances. One was metal and that is well known.
    The other is largely overlooked, because although it was essential for something we now take for granted, it formed a humble structural stiffener to hold the well known flashy outer stuff together. I think this is a bit of a metaphor.
    Many local histories hold fantastic local detail about places and families.
    The Victoria county histories can be very good, too; but for the county containing that hill the relevant family section is as yet unwritten.
    However the mining section tells me something about the hill.

    I can, if I want, track the various marriages and alliances and connections my Normans made across the country - some quite distant.
    But I have been researching other things so far.
    Nice to know they are there when I want to do that.

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