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Thread: New E-M81 Basal

  1. #1
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    New E-M81 Basal

    After a new E-M81 basal shown in the yfull tree

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M81/

    some people start claiming that E-M81 has been originated in the levant since the basal sample is of a negev bedouin

    how much is this scientifically accurate?

  2. #2
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    One swallow doesn't make a summer. Find more and that's a point.
    The evidence is compelling enough, you can either you refute it or accept it.
    Last edited by RagingBull; 07-03-2020 at 02:51 PM.

  5. #4
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    I wouldn't call it 'compelling enough' it's only one sample, and thus has little statistical relevance. Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, we need more basal samples.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1100AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    [1] "distance%=1.6007"

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  7. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    I wouldn't call it 'compelling enough' it's only one sample, and thus has little statistical relevance. Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, we need more basal samples.
    It's not a matter of opinion. The Bedouin subclade of haplogroup E-M81 is ancestral to the North African and European subclades.

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  9. #6
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    Just a technical question: why are some samples displayed directly under the clade (ie. E-PF2546) and others are under the paragroup (ie. E-PF2546*)? Aren't both basal?

  10. #7
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    There was this Berber guy posting on here who claimed that E-M81 was Amorite (Semitic).

    Edit: This was the thread: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....igin-of-E-M183

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    Basal? We don;t even know how old this sample is.... (it's still under analyze)

  12. #9
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    Interesting but only ancient dna can tell if E-M81* has had a ancient presence in the Levant, let alone explaining why and when this haplogroup became dominant in modern Maghrebis (the two can be independent of each other).

    I think we're bound to find basal E-M81 not only in NW Africa but also in regions which have been in continuous or periodic contacts throughout prehistory and history with the Maghreb (the Near East, Europe and the Sahel).

    Also, it' seems like this Negev Bedouin individual is not from the more "pristine" group ( B ) but from the more [North] African-shifted Bedouin A group (similar to some Palestinian Muslims). Correct me if I am wrong.
    So I'd say this discovery is less meaningful and almost disappointing.
    Last edited by Ignis90; 07-03-2020 at 09:25 PM.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
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    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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  14. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    Interesting but only ancient dna can tell if E-M81* has had a ancient presence in the Levant, let alone explaining why and when this haplogroup became dominant in modern Maghrebis (the two can be independent of each other).

    I think we're bound to find basal E-M81 not only in NW Africa but also in regions which have been in continuous or periodic contacts throughout prehistory and history with the Maghreb (the Near East, Europe and the Sahel).

    Also, it' seems like this Negev Bedouin individual is not from the more "pristine" group ( B ) but from the more [North] African-shifted Bedouin A group (similar to some Palestinian Muslims). Correct me if I am wrong.
    So I'd say this discovery is less meaningful and almost disappointing.
    BedouinB form their own component while BedouinA are Samaritan-like and have SSA.

    FireShot Capture 006 - G25 modern individual samples, scaled, official datasheet - VahaduoJS_ - .png

    All Negev Bedouins are now on Y-Full. They belong to J-ZS5603* (6), J-Y181197 (2), J-FGC67898* (1), J-BY208461 (1), J-Y125209 (1) J-ZS1575 (1), E-M81* (1), E-Y20282* (1) and G-Y92117* (1). Unexpectedly, J subclades date back to the Islamic period, while E and G subclades are pre-Islamic.
    Last edited by RagingBull; 07-06-2020 at 12:42 AM.

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