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Thread: Jewish populations in GEDMatch?

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    Jewish populations in GEDMatch?

    Hey all, these are my HarappaWorld results:

    Population %:

    1 S-Indian 35.31
    2 Baloch 32.74
    3 NE-Euro 8.71
    4 Caucasian 6.9
    5 Mediterranean 6.11
    6 SW-Asian 3.83
    7 NE-Asian 2.83
    8 Siberian 2.59
    9 Beringian 0.74
    10 Papuan 0.11
    11 San 0.08
    12 American 0.04


    Single Population:

    1 up-muslim (harappa) 5.87
    2 nepalese-a (xing) 8.51
    3 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 8.61
    4 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.89
    5 punjabi (harappa) 9.18
    6 bihari-muslim (harappa) 9.34
    7 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 9.4
    8 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 9.65
    9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.73
    10 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 9.89
    11 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 9.95
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 10.14
    13 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 10.36
    14 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 10.38
    15 vaish (reich) 10.6
    16 kashmiri (harappa) 10.83
    17 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 11.59
    18 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 11.64
    19 cochin-jew (behar) 11.8
    20 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 11.82


    Mixed Mode Population:

    1 88.9% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.1% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 4.16
    2 88.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.5% algeria (henn2012) @ 4.21
    3 82.8% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.24
    4 89.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.5% tunisia (henn2012) @ 4.28
    5 89% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11% mozabite (hgdp) @ 4.3
    6 88.4% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.6% libya (henn2012) @ 4.33
    7 89.2% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.8% saharawi (henn2012) @ 4.36
    8 88.7% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.3% moroccan (behar) @ 4.39
    9 80.7% gujarati (harappa) + 19.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.4
    10 82.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.41
    11 81.3% gujarati (harappa) + 18.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 4.43
    12 82.3% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.7% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    13 80.6% gujarati (harappa) + 19.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    14 81.9% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 18.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.45
    15 82.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.45
    16 83% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 4.46
    17 78.4% kerala-nair (harappa) + 21.6% romanian-a (behar) @ 4.49
    18 87.6% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 12.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.5
    19 63.3% dharkar (metspalu) + 36.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 4.52
    20 84.5% vaish (reich) + 15.5% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.58

    I'm mainly surprised by the amount of secondary Jewish populations in the mixed mode sharing, does anyone know how I should interpret them? I'm a Pakistani for reference and have no known Jewish or North African ancestry (I'm almost certain of it on my mother's side, but much less so on my father's beyond two or three generations)
    Last edited by pakistani; 07-05-2020 at 08:14 PM.

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    The combination of relatively high Mediterranean and SW Asian is resulting in those populations showing up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    Hey all, these are my full HarappaWorld results:

    Population %:

    1 S-Indian 35.31
    2 Baloch 32.74
    3 NE-Euro 8.71
    4 Caucasian 6.9
    5 Mediterranean 6.11
    6 SW-Asian 3.83
    7 NE-Asian 2.83
    8 Siberian 2.59
    9 Beringian 0.74
    10 Papuan 0.11
    11 San 0.08
    12 American 0.04


    Single Population:

    1 up-muslim (harappa) 5.87
    2 nepalese-a (xing) 8.51
    3 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 8.61
    4 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.89
    5 punjabi (harappa) 9.18
    6 bihari-muslim (harappa) 9.34
    7 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 9.4
    8 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 9.65
    9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.73
    10 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 9.89
    11 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 9.95
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 10.14
    13 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 10.36
    14 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 10.38
    15 vaish (reich) 10.6
    16 kashmiri (harappa) 10.83
    17 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 11.59
    18 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 11.64
    19 cochin-jew (behar) 11.8
    20 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 11.82


    Mixed Mode Population:

    1 88.9% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.1% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 4.16
    2 88.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.5% algeria (henn2012) @ 4.21
    3 82.8% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.24
    4 89.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.5% tunisia (henn2012) @ 4.28
    5 89% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11% mozabite (hgdp) @ 4.3
    6 88.4% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.6% libya (henn2012) @ 4.33
    7 89.2% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.8% saharawi (henn2012) @ 4.36
    8 88.7% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.3% moroccan (behar) @ 4.39
    9 80.7% gujarati (harappa) + 19.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.4
    10 82.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.41
    11 81.3% gujarati (harappa) + 18.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 4.43
    12 82.3% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.7% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    13 80.6% gujarati (harappa) + 19.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    14 81.9% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 18.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.45
    15 82.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.45
    16 83% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 4.46
    17 78.4% kerala-nair (harappa) + 21.6% romanian-a (behar) @ 4.49
    18 87.6% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 12.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.5
    19 63.3% dharkar (metspalu) + 36.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 4.52
    20 84.5% vaish (reich) + 15.5% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.58

    I'm mainly surprised by the amount of secondary Jewish populations in the mixed mode sharing, does anyone know how I should interpret them? I'm a Pakistani for reference and have no known Jewish or North African ancestry that I'm aware of (I'm almost certain of it on my mother's side, but much less so on my father's beyond two or three generations).
    It seems to be plotting you as mostly (80-85% S. Asian) with the rest from a MENA source. Pakistanis have some MENA admixture, albeit not from Jews or N. Africans but probably from Afghanis and E. Iranic peoples. It's just that rather than placing you as 60% S. Asian and 40% Afghan, or whatever the proportions of a Pakistani usually are, it seems to think that giving you more S. Asian and less MENA, just with a more Western-shifted MENA group is a better fit for you. You don't have to interpret this literally. In fact, the 19th line that gives you 63% S. Asian and 37% Central Asian is probably the most accurate here in my opinion. You should get an opinion from someone like Tipirneni who is more informed about this though.
    23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Eurogenes K13:
    East_Med 44
    West_Med 19.15
    North_Atlantic 15.63
    West_Asian 8.15
    Baltic 4.47
    Red_Sea 4.12
    East_Asian 1.31
    Sub-Saharan 1.23
    South Asian 0.71
    Amerindian 0.59
    Northeast_African 0.37
    Oceanian 0.27

    Father 23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Mother 23andMe 5.9:
    98.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
    0.5% Iranian, Caucasian, Mesopotamian
    0.5% Levantine
    0.2% Coptic Egyptian
    0.2% Sudanese
    0.2% Ethiopian & Eritrean

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkotl0327 View Post
    It seems to be plotting you as mostly (80-85% S. Asian) with the rest from a MENA source. Pakistanis have some MENA admixture, albeit not from Jews or N. Africans but probably from Afghanis and E. Iranic peoples. It's just that rather than placing you as 60% S. Asian and 40% Afghan, or whatever the proportions of a Pakistani usually are, it seems to think that giving you more S. Asian and less MENA, just with a more Western-shifted MENA group is a better fit for you. You don't have to interpret this literally. In fact, the 19th line that gives you 63% S. Asian and 37% Central Asian is probably the most accurate here in my opinion. You should get an opinion from someone like Tipirneni who is more informed about this though.
    The MENA ancestors I know of came from Hadhramaut in the 1500s and Baghdad in the 1700s. I have ancestors who came from Bukhara between the 13th and 15th centuries. I potentially have recent Pashtun ancestry so that could also explain it. I don't know how useful it is but I ran EthioHelix K10 + Palestinian and got these results:

    1 libya 5.62
    2 egyptans 5.91
    3 egypt 7.4
    4 algeria 13.8
    5 sahara-occ 15.02
    6 moroccans 15.82
    7 morocco-n 15.84
    8 mozabite 18.27
    9 palestinian 24.6
    10 morocco-s 30.52
    Last edited by pakistani; 07-05-2020 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    The MENA ancestors I know of came from Hadhramaut in the 1500s and Baghdad in the 1700s. I have ancestors who came from Bukhara between the 13th and 15th centuries. I potentially have recent Pashtun ancestry so that could also explain it. I don't know how useful it is but I ran EthioHelix K10 + Palestinian and got these results:

    1 libya 5.62
    2 egyptans 5.91
    3 egypt 7.4
    4 algeria 13.8
    5 sahara-occ 15.02
    6 moroccans 15.82
    7 morocco-n 15.84
    8 mozabite 18.27
    9 palestinian 24.6
    10 morocco-s 30.52
    That is pretty ancient so theoretically it should be barely noticeable. Ethiohelix + Pal is for mixed MENA and African people so probably not great for you. If you want to find out if you are more MENA shifted than average, I would use Vahaduo GEDMATCH calculators and try HarappaWorld updated. For sources use either Gujjar Pakistan or Baloch Pakistan (I don't know which one you are), Yemenese, and Iraqi Arab. Also, to account for the possibility that you are actually more S. Asian than the average Pakistani, I would use an Indian component (maybe Uttar Pradesh). See what happens.
    23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Eurogenes K13:
    East_Med 44
    West_Med 19.15
    North_Atlantic 15.63
    West_Asian 8.15
    Baltic 4.47
    Red_Sea 4.12
    East_Asian 1.31
    Sub-Saharan 1.23
    South Asian 0.71
    Amerindian 0.59
    Northeast_African 0.37
    Oceanian 0.27

    Father 23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Mother 23andMe 5.9:
    98.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
    0.5% Iranian, Caucasian, Mesopotamian
    0.5% Levantine
    0.2% Coptic Egyptian
    0.2% Sudanese
    0.2% Ethiopian & Eritrean

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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    The MENA ancestors I know of came from Hadhramaut in the 1500s and Baghdad in the 1700s. I have ancestors who came from Bukhara between the 13th and 15th centuries. I potentially have recent Pashtun ancestry so that could also explain it. I don't know how useful it is but I ran EthioHelix K10 + Palestinian and got these results:

    1 libya 5.62
    2 egyptans 5.91
    3 egypt 7.4
    4 algeria 13.8
    5 sahara-occ 15.02
    6 moroccans 15.82
    7 morocco-n 15.84
    8 mozabite 18.27
    9 palestinian 24.6
    10 morocco-s 30.52
    I was a bit curious so I tried it myself. Using Gujjar Pakistan, you came out more India-shifted than average, and it seems that your best model is 99.6% Uttar Pradesh Muslim and 0.4% Yemenese. Even though those are Muslims, they are Indian Muslims so I would say that you are more India-shifted than the average Pakistani (maybe E. Pakistani or recent Indian ancestors?) with the possibility of some distant Yemen or Arab ancestry. Uttar Pradesh Muslims by the way come out as about two-thirds Pakistani and one-third Hindu Uttar Pradesh.
    23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Eurogenes K13:
    East_Med 44
    West_Med 19.15
    North_Atlantic 15.63
    West_Asian 8.15
    Baltic 4.47
    Red_Sea 4.12
    East_Asian 1.31
    Sub-Saharan 1.23
    South Asian 0.71
    Amerindian 0.59
    Northeast_African 0.37
    Oceanian 0.27

    Father 23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Mother 23andMe 5.9:
    98.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
    0.5% Iranian, Caucasian, Mesopotamian
    0.5% Levantine
    0.2% Coptic Egyptian
    0.2% Sudanese
    0.2% Ethiopian & Eritrean

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkotl0327 View Post
    I was a bit curious so I tried it myself. Using Gujjar Pakistan, you came out more India-shifted than average, and it seems that your best model is 99.6% Uttar Pradesh Muslim and 0.4% Yemenese. Even though those are Muslims, they are Indian Muslims so I would say that you are more India-shifted than the average Pakistani (maybe E. Pakistani or recent Indian ancestors?) with the possibility of some distant Yemen or Arab ancestry. Uttar Pradesh Muslims by the way come out as about two-thirds Pakistani and one-third Hindu Uttar Pradesh.

    Correct, both sides of my family migrated from Delhi and UP after 1947. My 23andMe results for reference:

    23andme Results.png
    Last edited by pakistani; 07-05-2020 at 09:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkotl0327 View Post
    I was a bit curious so I tried it myself. Using Gujjar Pakistan, you came out more India-shifted than average, and it seems that your best model is 99.6% Uttar Pradesh Muslim and 0.4% Yemenese. Even though those are Muslims, they are Indian Muslims so I would say that you are more India-shifted than the average Pakistani (maybe E. Pakistani or recent Indian ancestors?) with the possibility of some distant Yemen or Arab ancestry. Uttar Pradesh Muslims by the way come out as about two-thirds Pakistani and one-third Hindu Uttar Pradesh.
    What's the average Pakistani?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    Correct, both sides of my family migrated from Delhi and UP after 1947. My 23andMe results for reference:

    23andme Results.png
    It's interesting that your top two regions are more western than your actual origin, maybe because you are Muslim? The NW Asian might be evidence of the Iraqi and the broadly Arab of Yemen ancestry but it also might be too distant to detect. Also, running you as UP Muslim and Egypt actually gives a smaller distance, and you get 98.6% UP Muslim with 1.4% Egypt, which is exactly the total of your Arab/Egyptian/Levantine on 23andMe. You've never heard anything about Egyptian ancestry?
    23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Eurogenes K13:
    East_Med 44
    West_Med 19.15
    North_Atlantic 15.63
    West_Asian 8.15
    Baltic 4.47
    Red_Sea 4.12
    East_Asian 1.31
    Sub-Saharan 1.23
    South Asian 0.71
    Amerindian 0.59
    Northeast_African 0.37
    Oceanian 0.27

    Father 23andMe 5.9:
    100% Ashkenazi Jewish

    Mother 23andMe 5.9:
    98.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
    0.5% Iranian, Caucasian, Mesopotamian
    0.5% Levantine
    0.2% Coptic Egyptian
    0.2% Sudanese
    0.2% Ethiopian & Eritrean

  16. #10
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    I have jewish shift too lol

    85.3% Kurdish + 14.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.02
    85.6% Kurdish + 14.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.09
    86.5% Kurdish + 13.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.13
    86.7% Kurdish + 13.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.46

    83.1% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.34
    83.4% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.6% Ashkenazy_Jews @ 1.44
    81.7% Kurd (Dodecad) + 18.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.52

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