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Thread: Who were the Hyksos? Challenging traditional narratives (Stantis et al. 2020)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Basically they did a coup within Egypt and took the throne themselves.Reminds me of those medieval turkic slave soldier dynasties that took kingdoms or caliphate from within like the Mamluks of Egypt
    There was a sizeable demographic component to it too given all the material cultures they left in the Delta, should be noticeablr genetically.

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  3. #12
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    Some Hyksos Y-DNA would be awesome!

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  5. #13
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    This is useless , no DNA comparison , and no definite conclusion that tell el dabah was hyksos site ,
    strontium isotope is outdated and unreliable method to determine the population origins ,
    In order to tell if Tell El dabah were really foreigners We need DNA comparison of them vs contemporary native Delta inhabitants and from preceding periods, in order to assess that they were
    not just simply a normal variation of the northeastern delta's native population
    I think the "Hyksos" are very overrated and becoming dangerous to assign physical conclusions based on Manetho's Tales, Manetho is egyptian priest from the Ptolemaic period the one who created this hyksos invasion tale.
    He is not a reliable source at all and its very Shaky to connect his tale from 1500 yr later to a site that has some canaanite cultural influence in the northeastern delta from a location very close to the levant..this is the problem i'm having with those bold conclusions those young egyptologists do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adules View Post
    The upcoming Egyotian paper apparently has Hyksos or Hyksos mixed samples.
    Do you know something new about that upcoming paper ?
    Last edited by Ramses; 07-16-2020 at 04:09 PM.

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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses View Post
    This is useless , no DNA comparison , and no definite conclusion that tell el dabah was hyksos site ,
    strontium isotope is outdated and unreliable method to determine the population origins ,
    In order to tell if Tell El dabah were really foreigners We need DNA comparison of them vs contemporary native Delta inhabitants and from preceding periods, in order to assess that they were
    not just simply a normal variation of the northeastern delta's native population
    I think the "Hyksos" are very overrated and becoming dangerous to assign physical conclusions based on Manetho's Tales, Manetho is egyptian priest from the Ptolemaic period the one who created this hyksos invasion tale.
    He is not a reliable source at all and its very Shaky to connect his tale from 1500 yr later to a site that has some canaanite cultural influence in the northeastern delta from a location very close to the levant..this is the problem i'm having with those bold conclusions those young egyptologists do.



    Do you know something new about that upcoming paper ?
    In what sense were the Hiksos overrated? Did they not ultimately signify the first foreign rule in Egypt?

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granary View Post
    In what sense were the Hiksos overrated? Did they not ultimately signify the first foreign rule in Egypt?
    The whole hyksos thing is mainly based on a tale by Manetho the egyptian priest he is the one who told us about this dynasty and its invasion through northeastern delta,
    he also told us about there expulsion outside of egypt.
    the archaeological evidences of this people is very scarce and is totally a result of imagination stretch by egyptologists , now Tell el dabah has 0% written evidence to be a hyksos site , its connected to this tale by manetho because it has Cannanite cultural influence , but it also has European cultural influence (Minoan art style) ..its very possible that part of the population of this site was foreign or that the natural geographic location of Tell el dabah has since much earlier times allowed for mutual cannaite/egyptian cultural influence.
    Now the conclusion from this study are not inclusive at all actually it goes against some of Manetho's claims about those Hypothetical Hyksos.
    Last edited by Ramses; 07-16-2020 at 05:07 PM.

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses View Post
    The whole hyksos thing is mainly based on a tale by Manetho the egyptian priest he is the one who told us about this dynasty and its invasion through northeastern delta,
    he also told us about there expulsion outside of egypt.
    the archaeological evidences of this people is very scarce and is totally a result of imagination stretch by egyptologists , now Tell el dabah has 0% written evidence to be a hyksos site , its connected to this tale by manetho because it has Cannanite cultural influence , but it also has European cultural influence (Minoan art style) ..its very possible that part of the population of this site was foreign or that the natural geographic location of Tell el dabah has since much earlier times allowed for mutual cannaite/egyptian cultural influence.
    Now the conclusion from this study are not inclusive at all actually it goes against some of Manetho's claims about those Hypothetical Hyksos.
    So who was behind the 15th dynasty? Why do Egyptian account still mention Asiatics rulling Avaris?

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  13. #17
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    I know no more about the paper than I do when it first leaked. I do know from the leak however that one set of samples is apparently like Bronze Age Levant populations unlike the other sets (aka Hyksos).

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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adules View Post
    I know no more about the paper than I do when it first leaked. I do know from the leak however that one set of samples is apparently like Bronze Age Levant populations unlike the other sets (aka Hyksos).
    So if ancient egyptians cluster near LBA in PCA it means they were hyksos? there's something called similarity in the genetic component.
    its middle kingdom south egyptians that cluster near LBA in pca , so they were far removed from any Hyksos site.
    Btw Hyksos was name given to Nubians,Libyans,Asiatics it means foreign rulers..but its mainly used to describe the Hyksos asiatic invasion tale by Manetho that occurred through the northeastern delta.
    we don't know what is the ancestry of Hyksos asiatics they were thought to be northern levantine or hybrid euro-asiatic (if they did exist).
    Last edited by Ramses; 07-17-2020 at 01:56 AM.

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  17. #19
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    "The Fourteenth Dynasty of Egypt was a series of rulers reigning during the Second Intermediate Period over the Nile Delta region of Egypt. It lasted between 75 (c. 1725–1650 BC) and 155 years (c. 1805–1650 BC), depending on the scholar. The capital of the dynasty was probably Avaris.[1] The 14th dynasty existed concurrently with the 13th dynasty based in Memphis. The rulers of the 14th dynasty are commonly identified by Egyptologists as being of Canaanite (Semitic) descent, owing to the distinct origins of the names of some of their kings and princes, like Ipqu (West Semitic for "grace"), Yakbim ("ia-ak-bi-im", an Amorite name), Qareh (West Semitic for "the bald one"), or Yaqub-Har.[1] Names in relation with Nubia are also recorded in two cases, king Nehesy ("The Nubian") and queen Tati."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourte...nasty_of_Egypt

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  19. #20
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    As far as i know the consensus was that they were likely semitic speaking people who migrated from the levant. The idea that it was a invasion hasn't held up. To me it just looks like they filled the power vacuum during the second intermediate period. I'm not saying they didn't go to war, only that they didn't start entering the country by invading the North of Egypt en masse all at once.

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