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Thread: Origin, Y-DNA of Sandzak Muslims

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    The R1b-Y82919>BY53973 cluster that reaches high frequencies in Bihor includes brotherhoods and families which do not claim common paternal origin with one another which is interesting. For example the Rastoder or Hrastoder came from Kuči/Kuēi and the Durakovići from the Bukmiri of Bratonožići. There is also an Albanian from the area of Debar (Albanian: Dibėr / Dibra e Madhe) in North Macedonia who forms a cluster under Y82919. To me it also seems certain that these lineages were of Albanian origin originating from Malėsia (including the highlands of eastern Montenegro).

    The vast majority of the Muriqi or Murići who have tested come under R1b-Y63957. Both Y63957 and Y82919 are clusters under Y32147 and so their TMRCA is ~1,300 ybp, sometime during the Early Middle Ages (eighth century CE possibly). The connection with some brotherhoods of the Thaēi (Elshani) is not all that direct, both simply share Y133365 with a TMRCA of ~900 ybp. The Muriqi are without a doubt a brotherhood originally stemming from Kelmendi. In 1497 the katund or pastoral community of Muriq is recorded as having settled in the village of Ishpaja in Kelmend, likely establishing the settlement or quarter of Muriq which in modern times comes under Vukėl. The branches that then settled in Sandžak still maintained and acknowledged their origins from Kelmendi.
    It could be that the traditions about the Rastoder`s and Durakovic`s are simply wrong. As far as I know, they have the same paternal origin.I sometimes have the feeling that the author Lutovac(Which is responsible for many of these stories) has written a lot of nonsense to give the Bosniaks in the Sandzak all a "Serbian" background. I have no problem with a Serbian background, don't misunderstand.
    But it is a bit noticeable that there was also a political agenda. The clear majority of his ancestry theories are wrong. Many from our area know everything about their family only from these "books". It is possible that many were ashamed to be Slavicized or that the Bosniak identity simply brought more advantages and the other one was dropped. Some from Pester and Rozaje report that they came to Sandzak as Catholic Albanians (some certainly as Orthodox) and found Bosniaks there. In time, they married Bosniak women and adopted Islam in order to be accepted. In the old patriarchal households, the mother was responsible for the education of the children, and since the mother was only a Serbian speaker, this language was also taught to the children. In this way, the Albanian identity was lost more and more. School, marketplaces (pazar) and religious places were anyway in the language of the natives. As a migrant you always have to adapt and accept new things from the locals, that is normal. Where do you look up these things like TCMRA? On which page? My family also has the tradition that we descend from the Bukumiri of Bratonozici. Here is a link of my family: https://bosnjackidnk.com/porijeklo-p...vic-iz-trpezi/

    I am already a few months in search of "relatives", but was not found except for the Abazi Family in Puke.
    Last edited by Bihor; 07-23-2021 at 02:59 PM.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bihor View Post
    It could be that the traditions about the Rastoder`s and Durakovic`s are simply wrong. As far as I know, they have the same paternal origin.I sometimes have the feeling that the author Lutovac(Which is responsible for many of these stories) has written a lot of nonsense to give the Bosniaks in the Sandzak all a "Serbian" background. I have no problem with a Serbian background, don't misunderstand.
    But it is a bit noticeable that there was also a political agenda. The clear majority of his ancestry theories are wrong. Many from our area know everything about their family only from these "books". It is possible that many were ashamed to be Slavicized or that the Bosniak identity simply brought more advantages and the other one was dropped. Some from Pester and Rozaje report that they came to Sandzak as Catholic Albanians (some certainly as Orthodox) and found Bosniaks there. In time, they married Bosniak women and adopted Islam in order to be accepted. In the old patriarchal households, the mother was responsible for the education of the children, and since the mother was only a Serbian speaker, this language was also taught to the children. In this way, the Albanian identity was lost more and more. School, marketplaces (pazar) and religious places were anyway in the language of the natives. As a migrant you always have to adapt and accept new things from the locals, that is normal. Where do you look up these things like TCMRA? On which page? My family also has the tradition that we descend from the Bukumiri of Bratonozici. Here is a link of my family: https://bosnjackidnk.com/porijeklo-p...vic-iz-trpezi/

    I am already a few months in search of "relatives", but was not found except for the Abazi Family in Puke.
    I'm just learning now about the people of Bihor. Was the Slavic speaking Muslim population of Bihor divided into bratstva (patrilineal clans) and plemena (tribes) like the other (Christian) people of Montenegro?

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bihor View Post

    Haplogroups from the upper Bihor Area.The one posted above is outdated, some families were added. I got it from "Bihorski DNK Projekat" on Facebook and they just posted it a few days ago.


    Bihor is a geographical region in northeastern Montenegro. The region is within three municipalities: Berane, Bijelo Polje and Petnjica. It was named after Bihor, a former medieval town that was near Bijelo Polje. The region mainly consists of ethnic Bosniaks.

    There are 73 surnames of villagers found in Upper Bihor:

    Adrović
    Agović
    Alibašić
    Babić
    Babačić
    Batilović
    Bibuljica
    Bošnjak
    Brakočević
    Cikotić
    Ćeman
    Ćorović
    Čivović
    Čilović
    Čolović
    Duraković
    Đukić
    Đurašković
    Garčević
    Goljo
    Hajdarpašić
    Halilović
    Hodžić
    Huremović
    Idrizović
    Ivezić
    Javorovac
    Kalić
    Kočan
    Korać
    Klica
    Kolić
    Kožar
    Kršić
    Hećo
    Herović
    Latić
    Levaić
    Ličina
    Ligonja
    Luković
    Mehović
    Muhović
    Muratović
    Murić
    Mirković
    Novalić
    Osmanović
    Palamar
    Pačariz
    Petrović
    Pramenko
    Prentić
    Pljakić
    Radošević
    Ramdedović
    Ramčilović
    Račić
    Rastoder
    Rujović
    Rugovac
    Sijarić
    Sadiković
    Sehratlić
    Smailović
    Skenderović
    Šabotić
    Škrijelj
    Taraniš
    Tiganj
    Vukajlović
    Vujošević
    Zverotić

    A few more personal words and estimates from me,
    The Islamized Novalics and Lukovics have not been included. The orthodox Novalic and Lukovics have already been tested both i2a, the islamized ones are logically descended from the orthodox ones, so they will be added in the near future. There are also other surnames that have not been tested that see other I2a surnames as their cousins. Surnames like Cilovic or Civovic also sound a lot like Serbian ancestry. Let's see what comes out. I am sure that the i2a value will increase. The high G2A value is certainly surprising but it will certainly go down because about 40% of the bihor is still to be tested. Most of the not tested families like the Rujovic`s, Prentic`s, Kalic`s and Kolic`s are supposed to be descended from the Kuci Tribe according to literature. We will see if this is true, but it would be strange if the Mehovic`s should remain the only Kuci`s in the entire Bihor. The neighboring Rozaje is full with Islamized Kuci`s, so probably it will not remain only with the Mehovic`s in the Bihor. The Rugovac family is said to be descended from Klimenta who came from Rugova to the Bihor. Sounds realistic because also in the Pester some Klimentas came from the Rugova area. The Pljakic`s probably have the same ancestry as the Pljakic from Pester. They would also be Klimenta`s. The Garcevic are islamized Vasojevic`s, there is actually only the test missing but it is 100% sure. There are also a few houses of Islamized Racic who are also 100% descended from the Vasojevics, but they are so few that they will probably not be tested. The Babic family could possibly also be descended from the Vasojevics. So the haplogroup E will get some percentages and overtake G2A. The Bibuljica family considers itself related to the Korac and Palamar both tested for R1a-Z283, so the Bibuljica`s will pretty much join them. So the Bihor is a bit more special than the surrounding areas with the higher i2a, the some families with G2a and the few islamized Vasojevic`s. As someone who comes from the region, I would actually have rather guessed a picture like in Rozaje with predominantly Islamized Kuci`s and Klimenta`s. I am also surprised.
    You have to distinguish the lower Bihor (Bijelo Polje) from the upper Bihor (Petnjica), the "Bihorski DNK Projekat" is only about the Upper Bihor!

    The Bosniak family names in Upper Bihor are!

    Name - Haplogroup - Houses in 1913 in Upper Bihor.

    Adrović - G2a - 88 houses.
    Agović - R1b - 50 houses.
    Babić - not tested - 1 house.
    Babačić - I2a1 - 12 houses.
    Batilović - not tested - 2 houses.
    Bošnjak - not tested - 0.
    Cikotić - I2a1 - 19 houses.
    Ćeman - R1b - 13 houses.
    Čivović - not tested, 6 houses.
    Čilović - not tested - 0.
    Duraković - R1b - 15 houses.
    Đukić - E-V13 - 0.
    Goljo - G2a - 1 house.
    Hajdarpašić - R1b and G2a - 27 houses.
    Halilović - R1a - 1 house.
    Hodžić - R1b - 18 houses.
    Huremović - I2a1 - 15 houses.
    Javorovac - not tested, but are J2b Škrijelj like Škrijelji from Murovac, Javorova, etc. - 6 houses
    Kočan - I2a1 - 37 houses
    Korać - R1a - 20 houses.
    Klica - R1b - 4 houses
    Kožar - R1b - 22 houses
    Kršić - R1b - 4 houses.
    Latić - not tested - 12 houses.
    Ličina - R1b - 64 houses.
    Ligonja - not tested, 2 houses.
    Luković - not tested - 6 houses.
    Mehović - E-V13 - 25 houses.
    Muhović - R1b - 15 houses.
    Muratović - R1b - 44 houses.
    Novalić - I2a1 - 5 houses.
    Osmanović - I2a1 - 12 houses.
    Palamar - R1a - 3 houses.
    Pramenko - R1b - 3 houses.
    Prentić - not tested - 7 houses.
    Ramdedović - J2b -11 houses.
    Ramčilović - E-V13 - 13 houses.
    Rastoder - R1b - 49 houses.
    Rujović - not tested - 10 houses.
    Sehratlić - not tested - 3 houses.
    Skenderović - J2b - 35 houses.
    Šabotić - G2a - 63 houses.
    Škrijelj - J2b - 70 houses.
    Taraniš - I2a1 - 7 houses.
    Tiganj - I2a1 - 6 houses.
    Zverotić - G2a - 7 houses.

    The others are from lower Bihor, such as:
    Bibuljica - R1a are tested
    Ćorović - R1a and G2a
    Pačariz - R1b
    Sijarić - J2a1 and R1a
    Herović - I1
    Etc.
    Or Garčević from Polica.

    As you can see, the upper Bihor has been tested very well, of 826 houses, only 55 "houses" are not tested, not even 7% of the "houses" from 1913 are still to be tested.
    There won't be any big surprises in Upper Bihor(Petnjica).

    In Upper Bihor according to the 1913 census:
    R1b is 40%.
    G2a is 22%
    J2b is 15%.
    I2a1 is 15%
    E-V13 5%.
    R1a is 3%.

    The lower Bihor is completely different as far as the haplogroups are concerned
    Last edited by User1; 07-23-2021 at 11:31 PM.

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  6. #84
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    Thank you all for these posts! Most of my closest FTDNA matches (they only match me at 67, no matches at 111) belong to the families you mention: Agovic, Ličina, Rastoder, with the exception of one from Blliēė, Dibėr (Hoxha surname). Although I have high STR distance (=6) with these individuals, it seems to me quite reasonable to assume that my ancestor came from the Sandžak.

    Although Kelmendasi, you suggest that at least the Agovic family probably originates from Kelmendi?
    Waiting for my WGS to submit on Y-full...
    Last edited by XXD; 07-24-2021 at 12:09 AM.
    distance: 0.01753688
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.2
    Early Slavic: 24.6
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 14.8
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 9.6
    MAR_Taforalt: 1
    CHN_Chuanyun_Historic: 1.2
    Yoruba: 0.6

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  8. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by User1 View Post
    You have to distinguish the lower Bihor (Bijelo Polje) from the upper Bihor (Petnjica), the "Bihorski DNK Projekat" is only about the Upper Bihor!

    The Bosniak family names in Upper Bihor are!

    Name - Haplogroup - Houses in 1913 in Upper Bihor.

    Adrović - G2a - 88 houses.
    Agović - R1b - 50 houses.
    Babić - not tested - 1 house.
    Babačić - I2a1 - 12 houses.
    Batilović - not tested - 2 houses.
    Bošnjak - not tested - 0.
    Cikotić - I2a1 - 19 houses.
    Ćeman - R1b - 13 houses.
    Čivović - not tested, 6 houses.
    Čilović - not tested - 0.
    Duraković - R1b - 15 houses.
    Đukić - E-V13 - 0.
    Goljo - G2a - 1 house.
    Hajdarpašić - R1b and G2a - 27 houses.
    Halilović - R1a - 1 house.
    Hodžić - R1b - 18 houses.
    Huremović - I2a1 - 15 houses.
    Javorovac - not tested, but are J2b Škrijelj like Škrijelji from Murovac, Javorova, etc. - 6 houses
    Kočan - I2a1 - 37 houses
    Korać - R1a - 20 houses.
    Klica - R1b - 4 houses
    Kožar - R1b - 22 houses
    Kršić - R1b - 4 houses.
    Latić - not tested - 12 houses.
    Ličina - R1b - 64 houses.
    Ligonja - not tested, 2 houses.
    Luković - not tested - 6 houses.
    Mehović - E-V13 - 25 houses.
    Muhović - R1b - 15 houses.
    Muratović - R1b - 44 houses.
    Novalić - I2a1 - 5 houses.
    Osmanović - I2a1 - 12 houses.
    Palamar - R1a - 3 houses.
    Pramenko - R1b - 3 houses.
    Prentić - not tested - 7 houses.
    Ramdedović - J2b -11 houses.
    Ramčilović - E-V13 - 13 houses.
    Rastoder - R1b - 49 houses.
    Rujović - not tested - 10 houses.
    Sehratlić - not tested - 3 houses.
    Skenderović - J2b - 35 houses.
    Šabotić - G2a - 63 houses.
    Škrijelj - J2b - 70 houses.
    Taraniš - I2a1 - 7 houses.
    Tiganj - I2a1 - 6 houses.
    Zverotić - G2a - 7 houses.

    The others are from lower Bihor, such as:
    Bibuljica - R1a are tested
    Ćorović - R1a and G2a
    Pačariz - R1b
    Sijarić - J2a1 and R1a
    Herović - I1
    Etc.
    Or Garčević from Polica.

    As you can see, the upper Bihor has been tested very well, of 826 houses, only 55 "houses" are not tested, not even 7% of the "houses" from 1913 are still to be tested.
    There won't be any big surprises in Upper Bihor(Petnjica).

    In Upper Bihor according to the 1913 census:
    R1b is 40%.
    G2a is 22%
    J2b is 15%.
    I2a1 is 15%
    E-V13 5%.
    R1a is 3%.

    The lower Bihor is completely different as far as the haplogroups are concerned
    That's not entirely true, they didn't test 826 houses. This graph also shows only the upper Bihor. But what I have checked only now, they have counted some surnames several times, for example, the Kocan`s in Godocelje and the Kocan`s in Poroce. Both had the same ancestry. Now you can argue about whether this duplicates the statistics, on the other hand I can imagine that the more we test the big surnames, the more surprises will come. I could imagine that such a huge family like the Adrovic`s do not have only one haplogroup - this is my guess. At the Skenderovic`s never 35 houses were tested. you can check for yourself on their Facebook page. If it is a mistake, you can write to them. According to Bihorski DNK Projekat, 60 people have been tested in the upper Bihor so far.What you said with the surnames from the lower Bihor is true, this I did not differentiate.

    Look here, there is a family from Sjenica which, according to their traditions, is said to be descended from the Hadrovics. However, they do not belong to the haplogroup G2a but to the Bihor claster of r1b. Now there are two theories, their family history is wrong or the Adrovics divide in several haplogroups (which is my theory). So we need to test more anyway.

    https://bosnjackidnk.com/porijeklo-p...a-kod-sjenice/

    Among us Skenderovic there are also the different subdivisions of the forefathers for example the Muratovici(descend from Murat, but their surname is Skenderovic), the Jahovici, Sacirovici etc.. Some of them are brothers, others have a different father, which could mean a different ancestry. I know, for example, according to many family histories that the Skenderovic's descended from Murat are not the same as those of Jaho. They share the same surname, so they see each other as "cousins" and do not intermarry but the ancestry is not the same. That is why we need more tests in Bihor, because there are such things in many families.The Hajdarpasic`s are already divided into 2 haplogroups. Why should it not be the same with the Adrovics or Skenderovics? In Luxembourg alone live over 800 people with the surname Adrovic Believe me there are still some Bratstva divided into several haplogroups.With the Adrovic`s there was always this story that they descend from the islamized Andro Đurašković. My grandmother comes from the Adrovic's and before I have even dealt with such topics, I have already heard such things. So the Adrovics themselves claimed that they descended from the Đurašković. Who knows, maybe there really was an Andro Đurašković, but maybe his descendants are only a small part of today's Adrovic. Is now only an example, I do not care whether they descend from the Đuraškovićs or not, but just want to show you 1 or 2 tested Adrovic`s do not say much. Maybe the G2a were even the smaller part that was tested, maybe they all descended from that - we will only know if we test more.
    In the Hajdarpasics from Vrsevo only two random people were tested and two haplogroups came out. Crazy, isn't it? In Trpezi I know of Muric's who changed their last name to Durakovic or something else. I am not sure in which surname exactly, but this has happened. I would have to ask my father. But this was much more common than you think, so many big bratstva will have different haplogroups.
    Here the Post from their Facebook Page:

    U Gornjem Bihoru do sada je testirano ukupno 36 plemena i 60 osoba. Testirano je preko 50% plemena. Najzastupljenija Haplogrupa je R1b, 36%. Ovoj haplogrupi pripadaju plemena: Ličine, Kožari, Rastoderi, Kršići, Agovići, Muratovići, Hodžići, Durakovići, Hajdarpašići, Pramenkovići, Muhovići, Ćemani i Klica. Ova plemena dijele zajedničkog pretka u bližoj i daljoj prošlosti.

    https://www.facebook.com/licinafehim...56034692589993
    Last edited by Bihor; 07-24-2021 at 10:02 AM.

  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD View Post
    Thank you all for these posts! Most of my closest FTDNA matches (they only match me at 67, no matches at 111) belong to the families you mention: Agovic, Ličina, Rastoder, with the exception of one from Blliēė, Dibėr (Hoxha surname). Although I have high STR distance (=6) with these individuals, it seems to me quite reasonable to assume that my ancestor came from the Sandžak.

    Although Kelmendasi, you suggest that at least the Agovic family probably originates from Kelmendi?
    Waiting for my WGS to submit on Y-full...
    It should be kept in mind that this lineage ultimately very likely came from Malėsia which would also include the Albanian-speaking territories of eastern Montenegro. So unless your common ancestor with these matches from Sandžak is extremely recent, I personally would not suggest a direct origin or arrival from Sandžak.

    Regarding the Agovići, I confused the ones from Rožaje (Albanian: Rozhajė) with the ones from Petnjica who are R1b-Y82919>BY53973. The Agovići of Rožaja can directly trace back their paternal ancestry to the village of Selca of Kelmend and have tested as E-BY105970 which confirms their genealogy and tradition. As for the Agovići of Petnjica, there is not much information. There are some who suggest an origin from northern Albania though I could not find anything more specific.
    Ydna: J1>P58>YSC234>ZS241>BY32817 (Y179831)

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS1273*

    Mtdna: T1a1l

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  11. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    It should be kept in mind that this lineage ultimately very likely came from Malėsia which would also include the Albanian-speaking territories of eastern Montenegro. So unless your common ancestor with these matches from Sandžak is extremely recent, I personally would not suggest a direct origin or arrival from Sandžak.

    Regarding the Agovići, I confused the ones from Rožaje (Albanian: Rozhajė) with the ones from Petnjica who are R1b-Y82919>BY53973. The Agovići of Rožaja can directly trace back their paternal ancestry to the village of Selca of Kelmend and have tested as E-BY105970 which confirms their genealogy and tradition. As for the Agovići of Petnjica, there is not much information. There are some who suggest an origin from northern Albania though I could not find anything more specific.
    Maybe you have to test the Agovic`s in Petnjica more and then the haplogroup of the ones in Rozaje comes out

    The big Bratstva will have several haplogroups, that`s for sure. I think I explained in detail in the post above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bihor View Post
    That's not entirely true, they didn't test 826 houses. This graph also shows only the upper Bihor. But what I have checked only now, they have counted some surnames several times, for example, the Kocan`s in Godocelje and the Kocan`s in Poroce. Both had the same ancestry. Now you can argue about whether this duplicates the statistics, on the other hand I can imagine that the more we test the big surnames, the more surprises will come. I could imagine that such a huge family like the Adrovic`s do not have only one haplogroup - this is my guess. At the Skenderovic`s never 35 houses were tested. you can check for yourself on their Facebook page. If it is a mistake, you can write to them. According to Bihorski DNK Projekat, 60 people have been tested in the upper Bihor so far.What you said with the surnames from the lower Bihor is true, this I did not differentiate.

    Look here, there is a family from Sjenica which, according to their traditions, is said to be descended from the Hadrovics. However, they do not belong to the haplogroup G2a but to the Bihor claster of r1b. Now there are two theories, their family history is wrong or the Adrovics divide in several haplogroups (which is my theory). So we need to test more anyway.

    https://bosnjackidnk.com/porijeklo-p...a-kod-sjenice/

    Among us Skenderovic there are also the different subdivisions of the forefathers for example the Muratovici(descend from Murat, but their surname is Skenderovic), the Jahovici, Sacirovici etc.. Some of them are brothers, others have a different father, which could mean a different ancestry. I know, for example, according to many family histories that the Skenderovic's descended from Murat are not the same as those of Jaho. They share the same surname, so they see each other as "cousins" and do not intermarry but the ancestry is not the same. That is why we need more tests in Bihor, because there are such things in many families.The Hajdarpasic`s are already divided into 2 haplogroups. Why should it not be the same with the Adrovics or Skenderovics? In Luxembourg alone live over 800 people with the surname Adrovic Believe me there are still some Bratstva divided into several haplogroups.With the Adrovic`s there was always this story that they descend from the islamized Andro Đurašković. My grandmother comes from the Adrovic's and before I have even dealt with such topics, I have already heard such things. So the Adrovics themselves claimed that they descended from the Đurašković. Who knows, maybe there really was an Andro Đurašković, but maybe his descendants are only a small part of today's Adrovic. Is now only an example, I do not care whether they descend from the Đuraškovićs or not, but just want to show you 1 or 2 tested Adrovic`s do not say much. Maybe the G2a were even the smaller part that was tested, maybe they all descended from that - we will only know if we test more.
    In the Hajdarpasics from Vrsevo only two random people were tested and two haplogroups came out. Crazy, isn't it? In Trpezi I know of Muric's who changed their last name to Durakovic or something else. I am not sure in which surname exactly, but this has happened. I would have to ask my father. But this was much more common than you think, so many big bratstva will have different haplogroups.
    Here the Post from their Facebook Page:

    U Gornjem Bihoru do sada je testirano ukupno 36 plemena i 60 osoba. Testirano je preko 50% plemena. Najzastupljenija Haplogrupa je R1b, 36%. Ovoj haplogrupi pripadaju plemena: Ličine, Kožari, Rastoderi, Kršići, Agovići, Muratovići, Hodžići, Durakovići, Hajdarpašići, Pramenkovići, Muhovići, Ćemani i Klica. Ova plemena dijele zajedničkog pretka u bližoj i daljoj prošlosti.

    https://www.facebook.com/licinafehim...56034692589993
    I think you didn't understand me, of course there weren't 35 houses of Skenderovic who did the test, but one test counts for the whole family, except several different haplogroups were found, as long as there is only one haplogroup, it counts for the whole family!

    There are clearly some wrong traditions, Gašanin from Sjenice say they come from Savin Bor from the Hadrović but it is more likely that they come from Rastoder from Bor!

    The statistics I have listed are many times more accurate than statistics alone on the number of tested persons, we can't say 1 House Halilovic - R1a is the same like 88 houses Hadrovic - G2a in Upper Bihor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bihor View Post
    Maybe you have to test the Agovic`s in Petnjica more and then the haplogroup of the ones in Rozaje comes out

    The big Bratstva will have several haplogroups, that`s for sure. I think I explained in detail in the post above.
    There are 6 Agović from different vilages in Upper Bihor who did a test and all are R1b-Z2705.

    Agović from Rožaje have the tradition that they come from Selce-Kelmendi, Agović from Bihor the tradition that they come from Plav and further they are from a Catholic from Northern Albania without any reference to a tribe (there are of course different interpretations based on history and surname in the last decades of which tribe they could be)

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     Agamemnon (07-25-2021),  Bihor (07-24-2021),  Kelmendasi (07-24-2021)

  17. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by User1 View Post
    There are 6 Agović from different vilages in Upper Bihor who did a test and all are R1b-Z2705.

    Agović from Rožaje have the tradition that they come from Selce-Kelmendi, Agović from Bihor the tradition that they come from Plav and further they are from a Catholic from Northern Albania without any reference to a tribe (there are of course different interpretations based on history and surname in the last decades of which tribe they could be)
    Okay then, it is pretty sure that they have nothing to do with the ones from Rozaje. Thanks for this information.

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