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Thread: Slavic Heritage

  1. #71
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    Östergötland och Sörmland have a history of Walloon immigration and contribution, so its possible for your family to have such ancestry:
    https://www.vallon.se/ind_hist.htm

    Check out the lists for occupations and names.

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    It could be other, more recent French ancestry. But I think a French part is most likely real everything considered.

    The reason you get Balkan-like ancestry is because of the minor Jewish you got. Its pretty low, but many algorithms just prefer to include it into a component which has Balkan ancestry. Its the same as with "your Slovakian", which isn't real neither. 23andme is just superiour on the issue with their segment assignment. Your French & German is just not just German, but also real French/Walloon! Probably not at that level like in this run, but very significant. I wouldn't have been able to recognise it with your data alone. Its like it is with phenotypes too, sometimes you have to look at the parents or even grandparents to see where somethings is coming from. Here its the same with my limited abilities. Your real total Slavic is about 1/4. The Romanian eats up some of your French, Jewish and Slavic. If I remove it, another Balkan-shifted group pops up instead. The Jewish is too low in you to be picked up correctly, especially if some Vlach-like source is available (Romance-Slavic-West Asian). At the same time your German gets eaten up by Germanic vs. Romance too. Its more difficult with your because you are a minimum 5-way mix and some German references might be missed for a better run. Thanks to the sample from your dad, things got more clear now.

    You seem to be best modelled like North Germanic (Swedish with Finnish shift) - German (Eastern with Slavic shift) - West Slavic (with Balkan touch) - French (Walloon?) - plus 3/64 Ashkenazi Jewish. At least that's what I could come up with, might wrong in some respects. If you have non-Ashkenazi, other Jewish that would complicate things too.
    I'll have to look into that French part. The only French ancestry I've heard of in my family is Hugenotten ancestry from my mother's side but I don't know how real that is. I have a pretty extensively documented family history for my dad's side because his mom is a descendant of the Löwenadler family, so he has confirmed Dutch roots on that side and also some Portuguese, but that is farther back (and also not as solid). His dad's side is not as thoroughly documented but all we have so far is a couple of generations back that is strictly in Sweden. As for his Finnish, he didn't score any on 23andme (even though I got 0.6 or something). I am waiting for his mother's test so that they can phase and hopefully correct some swapping errors that probably caused the absence of Finnish. Still, if he has a heavy Finnic shift in his Swedish ancestry, then wouldn't a more significant amount of Finnish shown up? Or is the Finnic just incorporated within his 50% Scandinavian that showed up? He also got 19% Ashkenazi Jew (his distant Portuguese has possible far back Sephardic Jew origins), so it is a surprise that he doesn't get that much on g25 (but maybe that can be explained).

    As for my Slavic, I do get 28% Eastern European on 23andme, and my Eastern German grandma also gets 30% EE even though she has deep Eastern Germany ancestry (very German names that she descends from and not any ancestors outside Germany). But the Slavic shift for her doesn't seem far off from reality, either. And then there's my grandpa from Silesia; he is not well documented at all and his lineage is a mystery to my family. In retrospect to what rothaer and me were talking about, my grandpa would theoretically be 75-90% Eastern European on 23andme if we did the math and even with the locations of which his parents were born I still think he had pretty deep West Slavic roots (at least predominately from his mom, who was born in Merseberg but had the name Palczynski). Or else, why would I have pretty significant Slavic admixture? I also am getting a test for my mother's brother, so I'll get g25 coords for him and see where he compares, but I want to say that it is pretty certain that he will show up as Eastern German + Western Slavic. I'll probably post his coords to this thread or pm you them once that happens.

    Thank you by the way, once again!
    23andme v5.9 - 29.3% Scandinavian, 16.7% French & German, 0.7% Finnish, 12.5% Broadly Northwestern European, 32% Eastern European, 5% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.5% Italian, 1.9% Broadly European

    Paper Tree - 43.75% Swedish, 37.5% Eastern German, 6.25% Jewish, 12.5% Polish

  4. #73
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    I'm just trying things out and sharing my thoughts and results, can't say how valid it is. I would definitely trust 23andme more. Concerning the Walloon ancestry, you have to consider that its present in Sweden for long. So unless you have a documented history going back to at the early 17th century, you can't really know.

    The Finnish is part of Swedish ancestry for your dad, probably even some of the Walloon is too, since Finnish, German and Walloon are old in Sweden by now, present there for hundreds of years and widespread.

    As for my Slavic, I do get 28% Eastern European on 23andme
    That seems to be fairly accurate for you. Its about 1/4, like said. That his Ashkenazi was so high is interesting, so is a possible Iberian and Sephardic ancestry. That changes things. The interesting thing is, that the French stays, but he gets additional Spanish, probably because of the Ashkenazi-Sephardic ancestry. How much of the French is real considering he might have Sephardic and Iberian ancestry, which could be wrongly assigned in combination, is open to debate, but I think it is. Just probably on a somewhat lower level.

    Target: btree_dad_scaled
    Distance: 2.0937% / 0.02093678
    35.0 Swiss_French
    30.8 Danish
    17.0 Finnish_East
    7.4 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    6.2 Spanish_Murcia
    3.6 Norwegian
    Your genealogy and family history is certainly quite interesting.

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  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I'm just trying things out and sharing my thoughts and results, can't say how valid it is. I would definitely trust 23andme more. Concerning the Walloon ancestry, you have to consider that its present in Sweden for long. So unless you have a documented history going back to at the early 17th century, you can't really know.

    The Finnish is part of Swedish ancestry for your dad, probably even some of the Walloon is too, since Finnish, German and Walloon are old in Sweden by now, present there for hundreds of years and widespread.

    That seems to be fairly accurate for you. Its about 1/4, like said. That his Ashkenazi was so high is interesting, so is a possible Iberian and Sephardic ancestry. That changes things. The interesting thing is, that the French stays, but he gets additional Spanish, probably because of the Ashkenazi-Sephardic ancestry. How much of the French is real considering he might have Sephardic and Iberian ancestry, which could be wrongly assigned in combination, is open to debate, but I think it is. Just probably on a somewhat lower level.

    Your genealogy and family history is certainly quite interesting.
    My dad's mother's side is documented all the way back to the 1600s but it has been traced back by other descendants that have added onto each other's information, so I tend to not give a lot of validity for older information that I have not dug up myself. However, it is pretty consistent despite several people working on the tree. I have traced back my dad's dad side only for a couple generations (maybe 4-5 or so), and like I said it's basically all Ostergotland Swedish. The only records I really have to work off of are church records containing information about their names and birth and sometimes death. But, I will be looking for some French/Walloon even if it is really distant.

    I am mostly working on my mother's side at the moment because of the lack of information we have on her (particularly her dad's side). Her family history is a lot plainer than my dad's, but I still enjoy trying to uncover her Silesian side. What's funny is that people called her dad's side the 'Egyptians' (I think back then they would call gypsies Egyptians because they confused the terms) since they didn't quite look like the average German. I just hope that I can go back far enough to confirm her Slavic roots, as it seems existent genetically and geographically + familially. Here is a picture of my grandpa, by the way.

    curt1.png

    I'll pm you my g25 for my uncle when I get it, if that's okay.
    23andme v5.9 - 29.3% Scandinavian, 16.7% French & German, 0.7% Finnish, 12.5% Broadly Northwestern European, 32% Eastern European, 5% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.5% Italian, 1.9% Broadly European

    Paper Tree - 43.75% Swedish, 37.5% Eastern German, 6.25% Jewish, 12.5% Polish

  7. #75
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    Sure, its probably becoming to specific in this thread anyway. Just send me a PM.

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