Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28

Thread: Pashtun ancestry?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    95
    Sex

    Pashtun ancestry?

    My great great grandfather from UP claimed that he and his wife were both full Pashtun, which may be a little dubious:



    Would I be able to determine the truth to that by looking at some of my test results? 23andMe, and HarappaWorld:

     
    Population %:

    1 S-Indian 35.31
    2 Baloch 32.74
    3 NE-Euro 8.71
    4 Caucasian 6.9
    5 Mediterranean 6.11
    6 SW-Asian 3.83
    7 NE-Asian 2.83
    8 Siberian 2.59
    9 Beringian 0.74
    10 Papuan 0.11
    11 San 0.08
    12 American 0.04


    Single Population Sharing:

    1 up-muslim (harappa) 5.87
    2 nepalese-a (xing) 8.51
    3 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 8.61
    4 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.89
    5 punjabi (harappa) 9.18
    6 bihari-muslim (harappa) 9.34
    7 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 9.4
    8 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 9.65
    9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.73
    10 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 9.89
    11 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 9.95
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 10.14
    13 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 10.36
    14 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 10.38
    15 vaish (reich) 10.6
    16 kashmiri (harappa) 10.83
    17 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 11.59
    18 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 11.64
    19 cochin-jew (behar) 11.8
    20 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 11.82


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    1 88.9% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.1% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 4.16
    2 88.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.5% algeria (henn2012) @ 4.21
    3 82.8% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.24
    4 89.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.5% tunisia (henn2012) @ 4.28
    5 89% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11% mozabite (hgdp) @ 4.3
    6 88.4% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.6% libya (henn2012) @ 4.33
    7 89.2% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.8% saharawi (henn2012) @ 4.36
    8 88.7% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.3% moroccan (behar) @ 4.39
    9 80.7% gujarati (harappa) + 19.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.4
    10 82.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.41
    11 81.3% gujarati (harappa) + 18.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 4.43
    12 82.3% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.7% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    13 80.6% gujarati (harappa) + 19.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    14 81.9% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 18.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.45
    15 82.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.45
    16 83% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 4.46
    17 78.4% kerala-nair (harappa) + 21.6% romanian-a (behar) @ 4.49
    18 87.6% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 12.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.5
    19 63.3% dharkar (metspalu) + 36.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 4.52
    20 84.5% vaish (reich) + 15.5% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.58


    G25 Modern Averages:

     
    Target: pakistani_scaled
    Distance: 1.4219% / 0.01421929

    37.2 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    15.6 Gujar_India
    13.4 Jatt_Pathak
    8.4 Gupta
    7.8 Yemenite_Mahra
    5.0 Shor_Khakassia
    4.8 Brahui
    2.2 Japanese
    2.0 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
    1.8 Basque_Spanish
    1.0 Kanjar
    0.4 Kosipe
    0.4 Madiga

    Target: pakistani_scaled
    Distance: 1.8600% / 0.01860045 | ADC: 0.25x

    35.8 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    21.0 Burusho
    19.2 Brahmin_West_Bengal
    6.6 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
    6.2 Yemenite_Mahra
    4.0 Gujar_India
    3.6 Brahmin_Gujarat
    3.6 Jatt_Pathak

    Distance to: pakistani_scaled

    0.04037301 Brahmin_Gujarat
    0.04340859 Gujar_India
    0.04834304 Kashmiri_Pandit
    0.05010389 Kohistani
    0.05061369 Burusho
    0.05138342 Khatri
    0.05349074 Gujar_Pakistan
    0.05392985 Sindhi
    0.05546853 Punjabi_Jatt
    0.05554464 Brahmin_West_Bengal
    0.05610852 Kshatriya
    0.05852728 Kamboj
    0.06010509 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    0.06299978 Iyer
    0.06369006 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
    0.06630154 Pashtun
    0.06864628 Ror
    0.07002881 Jatt_Pathak
    0.07072149 Yusufzai
    0.07675920 Kho_Singanali
    0.07786632 Uthmankhel
    0.07966609 Tarkalani
    0.08251516 Punjabi_Lahore
    0.08392032 Gujarati
    0.08731827 Bahun


    Nothing really pops out to me except for the bolded. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by pakistani; 07-23-2020 at 04:45 AM.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pakistani For This Useful Post:

     Ahmed Ali (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020),  misanthropy (07-23-2020)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    343
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Punjabi
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y6

    I score Pasthun about the same as you so I wouldn't take it seriously. We have no Pasthun story in our family at all, the closest is having an ancestor with the name Kabul

    Distance to: Ali_Raza_scaled
    0.02829489 Gujar_India
    0.02886098 Brahmin_Gujarat
    0.03829409 Kashmiri_Pandit
    0.04003846 Sindhi
    0.04004698 Kohistani
    0.04052325 Gujar_Pakistan
    0.04144953 Khatri
    0.04984197 Punjabi_Jatt
    0.05027243 Burusho
    0.05142650 Kshatriya
    0.05186778 Kamboj
    0.05385088 Brahmin_West_Bengal
    0.05440883 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
    0.05586318 Iyer
    0.05796927 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    0.06251697 Pashtun
    0.06594458 Yusufzai
    0.07091494 Ror
    0.07307129 Jatt_Pathak
    0.07411222 Uthmankhel
    0.07504037 Tarkalani
    0.07609740 Kho_Singanali
    0.07696960 Gujarati
    0.07921568 Punjabi_Lahore
    0.08416668 Kalash

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Raza94 For This Useful Post:

     laltota (07-23-2020),  pakistani (07-23-2020),  parasar (07-24-2020)

  5. #3
    Moderator
    Posts
    1,549
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93
    mtDNA (M)
    H28a/H1b5(Wife)

    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani View Post
    My great great grandfather from UP claimed that he and his wife were both full Pashtun, which may be a little dubious:



    Would I be able to determine the truth to that by looking at some of my test results? 23andMe, and HarappaWorld:

     
    Population %:

    1 S-Indian 35.31
    2 Baloch 32.74
    3 NE-Euro 8.71
    4 Caucasian 6.9
    5 Mediterranean 6.11
    6 SW-Asian 3.83
    7 NE-Asian 2.83
    8 Siberian 2.59
    9 Beringian 0.74
    10 Papuan 0.11
    11 San 0.08
    12 American 0.04


    Single Population Sharing:

    1 up-muslim (harappa) 5.87
    2 nepalese-a (xing) 8.51
    3 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 8.61
    4 up-brahmin (harappa) 8.89
    5 punjabi (harappa) 9.18
    6 bihari-muslim (harappa) 9.34
    7 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 9.4
    8 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 9.65
    9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.73
    10 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 9.89
    11 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 9.95
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 10.14
    13 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 10.36
    14 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 10.38
    15 vaish (reich) 10.6
    16 kashmiri (harappa) 10.83
    17 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 11.59
    18 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 11.64
    19 cochin-jew (behar) 11.8
    20 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 11.82


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    1 88.9% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.1% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 4.16
    2 88.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.5% algeria (henn2012) @ 4.21
    3 82.8% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.24
    4 89.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.5% tunisia (henn2012) @ 4.28
    5 89% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11% mozabite (hgdp) @ 4.3
    6 88.4% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.6% libya (henn2012) @ 4.33
    7 89.2% up-brahmin (harappa) + 10.8% saharawi (henn2012) @ 4.36
    8 88.7% up-brahmin (harappa) + 11.3% moroccan (behar) @ 4.39
    9 80.7% gujarati (harappa) + 19.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.4
    10 82.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.41
    11 81.3% gujarati (harappa) + 18.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 4.43
    12 82.3% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.7% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    13 80.6% gujarati (harappa) + 19.4% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.44
    14 81.9% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 18.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) @ 4.45
    15 82.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 17.9% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 4.45
    16 83% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 4.46
    17 78.4% kerala-nair (harappa) + 21.6% romanian-a (behar) @ 4.49
    18 87.6% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 12.4% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.5
    19 63.3% dharkar (metspalu) + 36.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 4.52
    20 84.5% vaish (reich) + 15.5% morocco-jew (behar) @ 4.58


    G25 Modern Averages:

     
    Target: pakistani_scaled
    Distance: 1.4219% / 0.01421929

    37.2 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    15.6 Gujar_India
    13.4 Jatt_Pathak
    8.4 Gupta
    7.8 Yemenite_Mahra
    5.0 Shor_Khakassia
    4.8 Brahui
    2.2 Japanese
    2.0 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
    1.8 Basque_Spanish
    1.0 Kanjar
    0.4 Kosipe
    0.4 Madiga

    Target: pakistani_scaled
    Distance: 1.8600% / 0.01860045 | ADC: 0.25x

    35.8 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    21.0 Burusho
    19.2 Brahmin_West_Bengal
    6.6 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
    6.2 Yemenite_Mahra
    4.0 Gujar_India
    3.6 Brahmin_Gujarat
    3.6 Jatt_Pathak

    Distance to: pakistani_scaled

    0.04037301 Brahmin_Gujarat
    0.04340859 Gujar_India
    0.04834304 Kashmiri_Pandit
    0.05010389 Kohistani
    0.05061369 Burusho
    0.05138342 Khatri
    0.05349074 Gujar_Pakistan
    0.05392985 Sindhi
    0.05546853 Punjabi_Jatt
    0.05554464 Brahmin_West_Bengal
    0.05610852 Kshatriya
    0.05852728 Kamboj
    0.06010509 Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh
    0.06299978 Iyer
    0.06369006 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
    0.06630154 Pashtun
    0.06864628 Ror
    0.07002881 Jatt_Pathak
    0.07072149 Yusufzai
    0.07675920 Kho_Singanali
    0.07786632 Uthmankhel
    0.07966609 Tarkalani
    0.08251516 Punjabi_Lahore
    0.08392032 Gujarati
    0.08731827 Bahun


    Nothing really pops out to me except for the bolded. Any thoughts?
    well Pashtuns generally overlap with NW South Asians especially when they show a very significant Gandhara_IA substrate like northern Pashtuns who seem to be a mix of something 40-60 Kandahari-like (Proto-Pashtuns originate in Arachosia/North Baluchistan) and 40-60 Gandhara_IA-like. But some outliners especially in the Pashtun average here are extremely eastern shifted so much that they are even more eastern than some Gandhara_IA samples (talking about the HGDP samples). So the Pashtun average here is not very representative. The Utmankhel, Tarkalani and Yusufzai average is more representative and similar/identical to Pashtuns in east Afghanistan. But Yusufzai already represent the most eastern and southasian shifted cluster of Pashtuns which has a very rich local genetic substrate. So if someone has ancestry from such kind of Pashtuns it will be hard to differentiate it from other NW South Asians in the region

  6. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     discreetmaverick (07-23-2020),  khanabadoshi (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020),  MonkeyDLuffy (07-23-2020),  pakistani (07-23-2020),  pegasus (07-23-2020),  Rahuls77 (07-23-2020),  Reza (07-23-2020),  Riverman (07-23-2020),  Sapporo (07-23-2020),  Varun R (07-23-2020)

  7. #4
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    3,820
    Location
    Gonur Tepe

    Afghanistan Jammu and Kashmir United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    well Pashtuns generally overlap with NW South Asians especially when they show a very significant Gandhara_IA substrate like northern Pashtuns who seem to be a mix of something 40-60 Kandahari-like (Proto-Pashtuns originate in Arachosia/North Baluchistan) and 40-60 Gandhara_IA-like. But some outliners especially in the Pashtun average here are extremely eastern shifted so much that they are even more eastern than some Gandhara_IA samples (talking about the HGDP samples). So the Pashtun average here is not very representative. The Utmankhel, Tarkalani and Yusufzai average is more representative and similar/identical to Pashtuns in east Afghanistan. But Yusufzai already represent the most eastern and southasian shifted cluster of Pashtuns which has a very rich local genetic substrate. So if someone has ancestry from such kind of Pashtuns it will be hard to differentiate it from other NW South Asians in the region
    Those 2 extreme outliers are very likely via mixing with Punjabi Christians and they have a sustained presence even in towns in FATA. Though rare, such marriages do occur. Many are in singing/entertainment. Sitara Younus , a popular Pashto singer is a Punjabi Christian from Peshawar, another fairly known singer in the FATA/South KPK area, would be Rahim Marwat from Lakki Marwat, a Punjabi Christian convert.

    The Zabol and Central Pashtun samples I had were basically identical to the western shifted Tarkalani samples from what I remember.
    Last edited by pegasus; 07-23-2020 at 08:40 AM.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pegasus For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020),  MonkeyDLuffy (07-23-2020),  Sapporo (07-23-2020),  Varun R (07-23-2020)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    369
    Sex

    @Pakistani: Your great-great grandfather means that you only share on average 6,25 % of your DNA with him, with a range of 5-7 %. If his wife was Pashtun too, you might climb to 12,5 %, but even then, that's not that much. Like the other posters have already said, Pasthuns are sometimes even fairly close, so detecting these 5-13 percent in your genetic make up with admixture runs is, in my opinion, hard to achieve.
    The only way to prove your family story would be to check for segment sharing, for closer relatives from actual Pashtuns. Probably you find cousins which are fully Pashtu. That's the best you can hope for I'd say, especially if you share the same segment with more than one Pashtu cousin.

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Ahmed Ali (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020),  pakistani (07-23-2020)

  11. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    460
    Sex
    Location
    London, UK
    Ethnicity
    Bihari, UPite and Bengali
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    O2a2b1a1
    mtDNA (M)
    M6a1a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1a-Z93, R-M560

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    @Pakistani: Your great-great grandfather means that you only share on average 6,25 % of your DNA with him, with a range of 5-7 %. If his wife was Pashtun too, you might climb to 12,5 %, but even then, that's not that much. Like the other posters have already said, Pasthuns are sometimes even fairly close, so detecting these 5-13 percent in your genetic make up with admixture runs is, in my opinion, hard to achieve.
    The only way to prove your family story would be to check for segment sharing, for closer relatives from actual Pashtuns. Probably you find cousins which are fully Pashtu. That's the best you can hope for I'd say, especially if you share the same segment with more than one Pashtu cousin.
    Maybe testing for SNPs downstream might help?

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to deuterium_1 For This Useful Post:

     laltota (07-23-2020)

  13. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    369
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Maybe testing for SNPs downstream might help?
    You mean yDNA I guess. Is it his paternal gggrandfather? If not one of his immediate cousins and direct male descendents would have to test, if there exist some.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     deuterium_1 (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020)

  15. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    460
    Sex
    Location
    London, UK
    Ethnicity
    Bihari, UPite and Bengali
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    O2a2b1a1
    mtDNA (M)
    M6a1a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1a-Z93, R-M560

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    You mean yDNA I guess. Is it his paternal gggrandfather? If not one of his immediate cousins and direct male descendents would have to test, if there exist some.
    Yes a direct male descendant of this Pashtun ancestor could help narrow down possibilities as autosomally it may be difficult to prove.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to deuterium_1 For This Useful Post:

     laltota (07-23-2020)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    369
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Yes a direct male descendant of this Pashtun ancestor could help narrow down possibilities as autosomally it may be difficult to prove.
    The problem with this approach is that you need a fairly close yDNA match to be sure. But less people do NGS haplogroup and STRs than autosomal tests. So its a viable strategy if there are male descendents, but I would bet minimum as much on cousin hits by segment sharing.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     deuterium_1 (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020)

  19. #10
    Moderator
    Posts
    1,549
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93
    mtDNA (M)
    H28a/H1b5(Wife)

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    The problem with this approach is that you need a fairly close yDNA match to be sure. But less people do NGS haplogroup and STRs than autosomal tests. So its a viable strategy if there are male descendents, but I would bet minimum as much on cousin hits by segment sharing.
    There are some Y-dna clades very typical and in some cases unique for Pashtuns. They make more of 50% of Pashtun Y-dna but many Pashtun clades were either not found yet (lack of deeper y-dna testing) or overlap with neighboring populations quite much.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1532/
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1127/
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-Y61970/
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-M283/
    https://yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ528/

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     BMG (07-23-2020),  deuterium_1 (07-23-2020),  laltota (07-23-2020),  Riverman (07-23-2020)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Indians with pashtun ancestry?
    By Heteorchromia in forum Central
    Replies: 217
    Last Post: 11-22-2019, 03:26 AM
  2. Pashtun K13 calculator
    By Magnetic in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-11-2019, 01:03 AM
  3. What is the difference between Afghan and Pashtun?
    By Alanson in forum General Sociology/Ethnology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-19-2018, 10:15 PM
  4. Replies: 152
    Last Post: 09-29-2016, 05:15 AM
  5. Replies: 56
    Last Post: 05-20-2016, 09:38 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •