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Thread: Reconciling the claimed West-African ancestry in certain Great Lakes clans

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    That's interesting, but as she does indeed have Yemeni ancestry I can understand, it would be what, in the last 300-400 years right?
    Her grandmother was mixed, which means her great grandmother was the pureblood Yemeni.Even though it's distant she still gets significant amount of matches not just from the Arabian Peninsula but even a few from the Maghreb & the Levant.

    Please correct if I'm wrong I think tha consensus here is usually like 'here's mans hypothesis so now we gotta reject or confirm' but I'm just trynna conduct an inquiry..this oral history I've been passed down gotta be rooted in something, particularly cuz AAs do seem to be majority Nigerian (where I've been told we share ancestry) at this point. The small amount of Malgasy ancestry in AAs is pretty interesting too I just got an issue wit the fact that all these AA matches are from various communities/hotspots and that the Bantu ancestry would be of the western stream which would make sense on admixture but this is IBD so its like...a common ancestor from way back at Bantu dispersal would be 3-5k years ago do you know what I mean? I've still been counting and its 80+ at this point with 500 matches total so its crazy disproportionate. I haven't seen any full-blooded SE folks matches so I really don't know if I can cross reference someone from Zim for example, I do have a Zim match but no shared AA matches with him, so if anyone would like to share what they know that would be cool especially if they from Great Lakes or adjacent. Also on't wanna beat a dead horse but that thesis found shared haplotypes with AAs/Dominicans that weren't local to Uganda.
    Honestly, I think you should ask some of your AA matches if they have full blooded Bantu matches from the SW or the SE.I don't think that 80+ matches is a coincidence.
    Drobbah_scaled
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 4.2508% / 0.04250752
    52.2 Sudanese
    19.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
    13.6 MAR_Taforalt
    11.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    3.6 ETH_4500BP

    Distance: 1.2698% / 0.01269848 | ADC: 0.25x
    31.0 KEN_Pastoral_N
    26.4 KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan
    18.4 TZA_PN
    12.0 KEN_HyraxHill_2300BP
    10.6 KEN_Pastoral_IA

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    So turns out I have more than 50 African-American matches, and counting, on Ancestry. I can post screenshots editing names out if needed. I'm sure this amount of shared IBD further heavily supports a common West-African ancestor [within the last 400 years?] unless all of these diverse AAs (from communities across the traditional AA sphere, Louisiana/Texas/Alabama/Mississippi/Virginia/Carolinas) have Eastern Bantu ancestry which I find absolutely unlikely. Like c'mon. Do any fully Eastern Bantu/Nilotic/Sudanic people share any AA matches?
    How large are the segments for these matches? I have hundreds of matches on ancestry from all over the America for segments <13cm. But I believe this is likely because of the disproportionate amount of people testing there and most (if not all) are likely IBS segments.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Her grandmother was mixed, which means her great grandmother was the pureblood Yemeni.Even though it's distant she still gets significant amount of matches not just from the Arabian Peninsula but even a few from the Maghreb & the Levant.

    Honestly, I think you should ask some of your AA matches if they have full blooded Bantu matches from the SW or the SE.I don't think that 80+ matches is a coincidence.
    Right makes sense in the time frame. Cool stuff. And yeah I might just do that, I just found a 100% West African match and asked her where she from, this is an interesting development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deftextra View Post
    How large are the segments for these matches? I have hundreds of matches on ancestry from all over the America for segments <13cm. But I believe this is likely because of the disproportionate amount of people testing there and most (if not all) are likely IBS segments.
    Okay now this is cool, they are all smaller segments yeah...a bunch of Mexicans and Colombians for me too lol...so I see why its iffy to base a conclusion on this just yet. Do you have straight up West African matches? I just found one waiting on what she has to say.
    Last edited by ThaYamamoto; 07-28-2020 at 02:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Do you have straight up West African matches? I just found one waiting on what she has to say.
    I have not come across individuals who are full west African yet. I have come across a few Kenyans and Tanzanians though, and from their names, its likely most of them are from the Swahili sphere. Allot of them tend to score minor amounts of south & west-Asian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deftextra View Post
    I have not come across individuals who are full west African yet. I have come across a few Kenyans and Tanzanians though, and from their names, its likely most of them are from the Swahili sphere. Allot of them tend to score minor amounts of south & west-Asian.
    Just curious, how much West Asian & South Asian % do your Swahili matches normally score?
    Last edited by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16; 07-28-2020 at 02:23 PM.
    23andMe

    96.3% Sub-Saharan African
    96.3% Congolese & Southern East African
    95.9% Southern East African
    0.4% Angolan & Congolese

    3.4% Central & South Asian
    3.4% Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani
    3.4% Central Asian

    0.3% Unassigned

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 View Post
    Just curious, how much West Asian & South Asian % do your Swahili matches normally score?
    Here's some results from folks that identify as mswahili, can't find the detailed results though unfortunately.

    9kd4imaaw2441.jpg

    Screenshot_2020-07-28_16-03-09.png


    Anyone able to figure out what this West-African match of mine is? Her proportions are strange...possibly Ijaw/Niger-Delta. Her name gives nothing away but her results are weird like the one Ijaw sample I've seen. Is Fonte Felipe still active on here?

    Eastern Bantu Peoples: 2%
    Cameroon/Congo/Southern Bantu Peoples: 52%
    Nigeria: 14%
    Benin & Togo: 28%
    Mali: 4%

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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 View Post
    Just curious, how much West Asian & South Asian % do your Swahili matches normally score?
    Quick question. To what extent do people who identify as Swahili self segregate and differentiate themselves from each other? I am talking about Swahili people from the same town or locale. I am trying to reconcile the results of individual Swahilis, like the ones posted here, who may exhibit more cosmopolitan ancestry and the results of the following study that found only minor ancestry from SW or South Asia in 3 Swahili communities from Kenya (the Comorian group from Anjoun were the only surveyed Swahili related group with significant MENA ancestry). I know that groups in Somalia who may speak Somali as a first language but exhibit more cosmopolitan ancestry due to historic trade links are distinguished from ethnic Somalis who are homogeneous. Is this also the case along the Swahili coast? I imagine that the “Arabs” who were massacred in Zanzibar in the 60s had been there for generations, mixed with the local population, and probably spoke Swahili as a first or second language?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5777450/

  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gihanga.rwanda View Post
    Quick question. To what extent do people who identify as Swahili self segregate and differentiate themselves from each other? I am talking about Swahili people from the same town or locale. I am trying to reconcile the results of individual Swahilis, like the ones posted here, who may exhibit more cosmopolitan ancestry and the results of the following study that found only minor ancestry from SW or South Asia in 3 Swahili communities from Kenya (the Comorian group from Anjoun were the only surveyed Swahili related group with significant MENA ancestry). I know that groups in Somalia who may speak Somali as a first language but exhibit more cosmopolitan ancestry due to historic trade links are distinguished from ethnic Somalis who are homogeneous. Is this also the case along the Swahili coast? I imagine that the “Arabs” who were massacred in Zanzibar in the 60s had been there for generations, mixed with the local population, and probably spoke Swahili as a first or second language?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5777450/
    There are many Swahili Sub-tribes tribes like the Mvita, Jomvu, Shirazi, Bajuni, Ngazidja of the Comoros and Changamwe to name and many others. They are all Swahili people culturally and genetically we all share a common ancestor.

    The main difference ls that the tribes have different Swahili dialects
    Theres the KiMvita dialect of Mombasa
    The Ki Amu (Bajuni) dialect of Lamu
    The Unguja Swahili dialect of Zanzibar

    As for Middle Eastern admixture, some tribes might have more significant Arab+ Indian and Persian ancestry like the Bajuni & the Comorians. The admixture tends to be more recent ( Yemeni, Indian, Persian& Omani settlers marrying into the Swahili community ). There are ofcourse more pure (>95% Bantu) Swahili people with minor outside admixture.

    Yes just like the Barawa of coastal Somalia who might vary in admixture compared to the other groups within the same locile, there is a similar case of admixtures varying on various coastal towns>> for example the Bajuni migrants from Lamu who live in Mombasa tend to be very mixed and look very mixed compared to the indeginous Swahili tribes of Mombasa.
    Last edited by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16; 07-28-2020 at 08:25 PM.
    23andMe

    96.3% Sub-Saharan African
    96.3% Congolese & Southern East African
    95.9% Southern East African
    0.4% Angolan & Congolese

    3.4% Central & South Asian
    3.4% Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani
    3.4% Central Asian

    0.3% Unassigned

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaYamamoto View Post
    Here's some results from folks that identify as mswahili, can't find the detailed results though unfortunately.

    9kd4imaaw2441.jpg

    Screenshot_2020-07-28_16-03-09.png


    Anyone able to figure out what this West-African match of mine is? Her proportions are strange...possibly Ijaw/Niger-Delta. Her name gives nothing away but her results are weird like the one Ijaw sample I've seen. Is Fonte Felipe still active on here?

    Eastern Bantu Peoples: 2%
    Cameroon/Congo/Southern Bantu Peoples: 52%
    Nigeria: 14%
    Benin & Togo: 28%
    Mali: 4%
    The guy from Lamu looks almost identical to one of my uncles on my fathers side lol. I would not have know the difference if someone gave me that picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 View Post
    There are many Swahili Sub-tribes tribes like the Mvita, Jomvu, Shirazi, Bajuni, Ngazidja of the Comoros and Changamwe to name and many others. They are all Swahili people culturally and genetically we all share a common ancestor.

    The main difference ls that the tribes have different Swahili dialects
    Theres the KiMvita dialect of Mombasa
    The Ki Amu (Bajuni) dialect of Lamu
    The Unguja Swahili dialect of Zanzibar

    As for Middle Eastern admixture, some tribes might have more significant Arab+ Indian and Persian ancestry like the Bajuni & the Comorians. The admixture tends to be more recent ( Yemeni, Indian, Persian& Omani settlers marrying into the Swahili community ). There are ofcourse more pure (>95% Bantu) Swahili people with minor outside admixture.

    Yes just like the Barawa of coastal Somalia who might vary in admixture compared to the other groups within the same locile, there is a similar case of admixtures varying on various coastal towns>> for example the Bajuni migrants from Lamu who live in Mombasa tend to be very mixed and look very mixed compared to the indeginous Swahili tribes of Mombasa.
    Thank you for this useful information! I think you’re right about the age of some of this gene flow . I wonder if the Indian/Pakistani/Persian ancestry is older than a lot of the Peninsular Arab ancestry, which might have been mediated by Oman.

    In the study I linked, the Arabian ancestry in Anjouan is dated to around the time of Oman’s ascendance as a regional power. It’s interesting that the Swahili from other Comorian islands lacked this same admixture. The Comorians are a very interesting group; I wonder if they received historical Malagasy ancestry or were originally Malagasy but later Swahilized? Not surprisingly, Bantu speakers are suspected to have island hoped from the mainland through the Comoros to Madagascar.

    Comorians from Anjouan result from a second admixture event between a Swahili group (Swahili from Mombasa: 74%) and a Middle Eastern group (UAE Dubai Arab: 26%) around 459 YBP (95% CI: 35–673 YBP).

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