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Thread: How to model non-Yamnaya steppe ancestry? Difference between western and eastern euro

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame View Post
    Why are you doing this about Poles? I spoke of western and eastern Europe as a whole. Poles are Slavic, not Germanic or Celtic. Poles group with Slavs and not with Danes. Does that bother you? It's not my fault! At no time did I intend to attack the Poles since I do not judge the value of a population based on 'how much steppe it has'. You have projected your own feelings into something completely harmless. To tell the truth is not to troll or attack.
    What do you want to bet that Poles have the same amount of steppe ancestry as Northern Europeans?

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    I asked you a question. Here it is again.

    What do you want to bet that Poles have the same amount of steppe ancestry as Northern Europeans?
    When did I say that Poles have low steppe ancestry? In no time! I just made a point - the type of steppe ancestry in Eastern Europe is different from Western Europe because Western Europe follows the Yamnaya pattern - different from Eastern Europe. I said that it is different and not inferior. There is no Nordic supremacist here. I will repeat: This publication is not about Poles, stop forcing it to look like it is about them. It is about an autosomal and male lineage difference between western and eastern Europe. It is not an attack and much less a 'troll'. It's amazing how some people become defensive about the facts for some reason - irrational - they don't like it.
    Last edited by Dame; 07-25-2020 at 12:13 AM.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame View Post
    When did you say that Poles have low steppe ancestry? In no time! I just made a point - the type of steppe ancestry in Eastern Europe is different from Western Europe - because Western Europe follows the Yamnaya pattern - different from Eastern Europe. I said that it is different and not inferior. There is no Nordic supremacist here. I will repeat: This publication is not about Poles, stop forcing it to look like it is about them. It is about an autosomal and male lineage difference between western and eastern Europe. It is not an attack and much less a 'troll'. It's amazing how some people become defensive about the facts for some reason - irrational - they don't like it.
    What do you want to bet that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and that you're wrong about Poles and other Eastern Europeans?

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    What do you want to bet that Poles have the same amount of steppe ancestry as Northern Europeans?
    Yes, Poles have less Yamnaya than Danes, Irish and other northwest Europeans, but they have more ancestry from EHG / ANE as well as other Slavs, Bslcanics, Finns and Russians. This is because EHG mates with WHG in eastern Europe for thousands of years - even before the steppe population moves west. It makes sense that northeastern Europeans have more EHG ancestry, whereas Western Europe received this type of ancestry only from Indo-European migrations. If you take samples of northeast European cultures prior to the steppe expansions you will also find the WHG / EHG mixture there. Whereas in northwestern Europe the pre-Indo-European mix was between farmers and WHG, with Yamnaya ancestry being entirely traceable via steppe expansion. Asking a question - like the one I asked - and describing facts that everyone knows is not an attack. Do not project your feelings on others. I don't intend to continue wasting time arguing with you. Have a good night.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame View Post
    Yes, Poles have less Yamnaya than Danes, Irish and other northwest Europeans, but they have more ancestry from EHG / ANE as well as other Slavs, Bslcanics, Finns and Russians. This is because EHG mates with WHG in eastern Europe for thousands of years - even before the steppe population moves west. It makes sense that northeastern Europeans have more EHG ancestry, whereas Western Europe received this type of ancestry only from Indo-European migrations. If you take samples of northeast European cultures prior to the steppe expansions you will also find the WHG / EHG mixture there. Whereas in northwestern Europe the pre-Indo-European mix was between farmers and WHG, with Yamnaya ancestry being entirely traceable via steppe expansion. Asking a question - like the one I asked - and describing facts that everyone knows is not an attack. Do not project your feelings on others. I don't intend to continue wasting time arguing with you. Have a good night.
    What do you want to bet that you're totally wrong?

    Put your money where your mouth is.

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  10. #16
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    To counter these idiotic claims, which are based on nothing more than a bizarre agenda, here are a few f4 stats.

    As you can see, dear audience, these f4 stats show that Poles, Norwegians and Swedes are symmetrically related (the Z scores in these tests are all insignificant) to Eastern European hunter-gatherers, Yamnaya pastoralists and Anatolian farmers. What this means is that it's impossible for Poles to have significantly different ancestry proportions from populations closely related to these ancient groups.

    Does anyone want to challenge my stats? If so, make sure you're ready to put your money where your mouth is.

    result: Chimp RUS_Karelia_HG Polish Norwegian 0.000047 0.304
    result: Chimp TUR_Barcin_N Polish Norwegian 0.000222 2.057
    result: Chimp Yamnaya_RUS_Samara Polish Norwegian 0.000225 1.995
    result: Chimp RUS_Karelia_HG Polish Swedish 0.000134 0.540
    result: Chimp TUR_Barcin_N Polish Swedish 0.000318 1.662
    result: Chimp Yamnaya_RUS_Samara Polish Swedish 0.000311 1.574

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  12. #17
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    The Udmurt people are a good example. The model I cited distinguishes well because they have so much EHG although they have less Yamnaya than northwest Europe. If the distinction between what is EHG and what is Yamnaya is not made in Eastern Europe, wrong conclusions are made.

    Target: Udmurt
    Distance: 4.3199% / 0.04319857
    34.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    22.8 RUS_Karelia_HG
    22.0 Nganassan
    17.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic

    I could cite more than 30 examples of how this pattern is repeated across Europe when we compare east to west. Even in eastern Germany the pattern is already starting to shift towards the east - which is predictable.

  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame View Post
    I could cite more than 30 examples of how this pattern is repeated across Europe when we compare east to west. Even in eastern Germany the pattern is already starting to shift towards the east - which is predictable.
    None of your examples are valid, because you don't have a clue what you're doing.

    What do you want to bet that I can prove this?

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  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame View Post
    I could cite more than 30 examples of how this pattern is repeated across Europe when we compare east to west. Even in eastern Germany the pattern is already starting to shift towards the east - which is predictable.
    Udmurts are irrelevant. These stats show that Poles don't different significantly from Scandinavians in terms of farmer, hunter-gatherer, and steppe ancestry proportions.

    result: Chimp RUS_Karelia_HG Polish Norwegian 0.000047 0.304
    result: Chimp TUR_Barcin_N Polish Norwegian 0.000222 2.057
    result: Chimp Yamnaya_RUS_Samara Polish Norwegian 0.000225 1.995
    result: Chimp RUS_Karelia_HG Polish Swedish 0.000134 0.540
    result: Chimp TUR_Barcin_N Polish Swedish 0.000318 1.662
    result: Chimp Yamnaya_RUS_Samara Polish Swedish 0.000311 1.574

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  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    To counter these idiotic claims, which are based on nothing more than a bizarre agenda, here are a few f4 stats.

    As you can see, dear audience, these f4 stats show that Poles, Norwegians and Swedes are symmetrically related (the Z scores in these tests are all insignificant) to Eastern European hunter-gatherers, Yamnaya pastoralists and Anatolian farmers. What this means is that it's impossible for Poles to have significantly different ancestry proportions from populations closely related to these ancient groups.

    Does anyone want to challenge my stats? If so, make sure you're ready to put your money where your mouth is.

    result: Chimp RUS_Karelia_HG Polish Norwegian 0.000047 0.304
    result: Chimp TUR_Barcin_N Polish Norwegian 0.000222 2.057
    result: Chimp Yamnaya_RUS_Samara Polish Norwegian 0.000225 1.995
    result: Chimp RUS_Karelia_HG Polish Swedish 0.000134 0.540
    result: Chimp TUR_Barcin_N Polish Swedish 0.000318 1.662
    result: Chimp Yamnaya_RUS_Samara Polish Swedish 0.000311 1.574
    In Scandinavia, the pattern is beginning to become more oriental compared to the Danes and the Irish. To assume that Slavs group with Nordics is completely bizarre.

    Distance to: RUS_Karelia_HG:I0211
    0.19824549 Finnish
    0.20233811 Estonian
    0.20386761 Russian_Kostroma
    0.20909151 Udmurt
    0.22088200 Polisholish16
    0.22129360 Belarusian
    0.23208334 Ukrainian
    0.23887482 Swedish
    0.24404640 Norwegian
    0.25238350 Danish
    0.25403321 Dutch
    0.25521500 Irish
    0.25992431 English
    0.26037648 Welsh
    0.26517017 Austrian
    0.27278462 German:German56
    0.28372040 French_Paris

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