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Thread: The FTDNA J1-specific Project

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    Bani Shaiba are supposed to be from Quraysh.

    I think when Arab tribes talk about their tribes haven't strict paternal descent, that is likely some type of origin myth that gets taken literally. I feel that Arab tribes were more open to assimilating/absorbing outsiders than is let on.
    Tribe in such a case would not mean a singular lineage. The Qatari L657 I know of, is from the Almanaseer, originally from the UAE and then settled in Qatar, however there are people within his tribe who carry different haplogroups.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    In addition I have:

    Syed surname; no paternal line locatio; E-M78
    Rizvi surname; Lucknow, UP; EV-12
    Naqvi surname; Lucknow, UP; E-M34 (mentioned above)

    All likely paternal descendants of a MENA male.

    These likely are the furthest east that these lineages traveled.
    Nelson Mandela was E1b, besides Hitler(E-V13) and even LBJ, the former american president.
    E1b is quite prevalent in Africa as well as Southern Europe, possibly spread from North Africa into Anatolia into the Balkans with the growth of farming. It was found in one of the old Swat valley samples as well, dating from around 1100 BCE, if I am not wrong.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahuls77 View Post
    Tribe in such a case would not mean a singular lineage. The Qatari L657 I know of, is from the Almanaseer, originally from the UAE and then settled in Qatar, however there are people within his tribe who carry different haplogroups.
    Banu Tamim has members that are J1, J2, R1a, R2, E, T at least.

    From a Shia point of view, Ummaya was not the biological son of Abd-Shams but a adopted Roman slave-boy. But given that the Shia clearly side with Bani Hashim over the Ummayads, this could be made up by Shia historians to do whatever it took to undermine them.

    I'm not sure what ethnicity "Roman" refers to, but it's clear that the Shia want "wiggle room" for him not to be downstream of JP-58.

    Last edited by subzero85; 07-25-2020 at 07:56 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    Banu Tamim has members that are J1, J2, R1a, R2, E, T at least.

    From a Shia point of view, Ummaya was not the biological son of Abd-Shams but a adopted Roman slave-boy. But given that the Shia clearly side with Bani Hashim over the Ummayads, this could be made up by Shia historians to do whatever it took to undermine them.

    I'm not sure what ethnicity "Roman" refers to, but it's clear that the Shia want "wiggle room" for him not to be downstream of JP-58.

    That is the problem with narratives that stem from a conflict. Those countering the Shia speak of Abdulla Ibn Saba. Genetics may or may not solve this schism. I hope it does.

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  6. #15
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    I'm just going to say that there seems to be many FTDNA groups with some type of religious agenda that end up doing shoddy research. Especially when they start assigning haplogroups and lineages.
    Last edited by subzero85; 07-26-2020 at 04:27 PM.

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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahuls77 View Post
    Are the Bani Shayba even actually Quraish?

    That R1a group is a little fanciful, rolling up all Asiatic R1a to the Jewish tribes. Sort of a lost tribe narrative. But then R1a is quite common among the Levites as well as the Turks and I know of two Arabs, one from Bahrain(wit the last name Al-Balooshi, probably indicating Baloch origins) and another from Qatar, both L657's.
    Ha yes!
    "Since the following famous and strong clans and tribes:
    - Quraysh of Abraham on R1a > R-Z94 > R-L657,
    - The Sadanah Bani Shaiba of Quraysh of Abraham the owners -by God order- of Holy Kaaba keys on R1a > R-Z94 > R-L657,
    - Cohanim of Levi of Abraham -as on Islamic heritage- on R1a > R-Z94 > R-Z2124 > R-Y2619,
    - Pashtun from Jewish ancient -as on Islamic heritage- on R1a > R-Z94 > R-Z2124,
    - Ottoman rulers -who accrued by their invasion on Istanbul an Islamic prophecy- from Jewish ancient on R1a > R-Z94 > R-Z2124,
    - Kyrgyz of Abraham -who accrued by their invasion on Baghdad an Islamic prophecy- on R1a > R-Z94,
    - Zoroaster -prophet as on Islamic heritage- clan from Aryan ancient and Aryan nations on R1a,
    - Zoroastrian priests on R1a > R-Z94,
    - Brahma priests of Abraham -as on Islamic heritage- on R1a > R-Z94 > R-L657,
    - Aryan Alan tribes of Noah on R1a,
    - Vandals of Noah on R1a > M459 > YP1272 and Goth priests of Noah were associated with them linguistically and geographically also there is religiously link with Goth to Brahma,
    - Israelite nation mtDNA lineage is K a branch of U mtDNA which is associated with Y-DNA R1a geographic areas,
    Came all together on Aryan nations lineage -Haplogroup R- and sharing almost the same anthropology heritage, this leading to understands that Al-Sayed genetically lineage on R1a > R-Z94 > R-L657."

    We can add the Huns, Khazars, and Magyars, etc.

    Nevgen reports R1a-Z93>Z94>Z2122>Y57 and R1a-Z93>Z94>L657>Y9 respectively.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post631440

    "Olasz et al. (2018) studied the genetic origins (17-loci haplotype) of King Béla III of the Árpád dynasty and found that the paternal lineage of the Hungarian royal dynasty also belonged to Hg R1a. The authors did not conduct SNP testing; however, based on the haplotype data, the sample would likely belong to the Z93 branch. SNP testing should be done to verify our hypothesis."
    https://link.springer.com/article/10...20-019-00996-0
    Now verified:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z

    At one time Huns, Kushans, and (Ashkenazi?) Jews were considered related.
    Kushan: "widely used in Armenian sources to designate the tribes and state of the Huns"
    https://books.google.com/books?id=883OZBe2sMYC&pg=PA119

    honni-hindni? = Jews
    https://books.google.com/books?id=yO-vCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA326
    Last edited by parasar; 07-26-2020 at 07:03 PM.

  9. #17
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    J1 is a very controversial ydna haplogroup and I dont like narratives I read from non-arabs and arabs alike. Non arabs want J1 to be God forbid non arabian and arabians are fighting about who is the real Arab.

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  11. #18
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    Whether J1-p58 Europeans like it or not, their paternal roots come from the middle east. ��

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  13. #19
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    I think our J and J1 ancestors lived in Northern Middle East. J1 has always been in the core of very disputed historical lands and J1 is extremely geopolitical. We can find different clades related to Christian, Muslim, Jew and other religions, just like different clades related to Indo-European, Semitic, Caucasian, Turkic and other languages, perhaps more or just like the same as in other haplogroups.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
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    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
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  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisdandy View Post
    J1 is a very controversial ydna haplogroup and I dont like narratives I read from non-arabs and arabs alike. Non arabs want J1 to be God forbid non arabian and arabians are fighting about who is the real Arab.
    It is Arab, majorly Arab. There is no doubt about that.
    In fact, I would go to the extent of reckoning that since a substantial part of Southern European & Mediterranean lineages have common most-recent shared ancestries with the lineages to their south, in Africa, as well as a bit from the Middle Eastern ones, Martin Bernal's assertion of Afro-Asiatic roots of the Classical/Greek Civilisation has quite a basis, even as it has been dismissed by some scholars on the grounds that it promotes Afro-centricism, in defence of previous and early modern scholarship.
    Arabs themselves have seen migrations from their North, from Central Asia, into West Asia, coinciding with the Indo-European expansion and prior to that as well, and even recently, in modern period, it hasn't been quite singular or unique as a lot or purists would wish to contend. As such every culture and civilisation appears to have grown from a diversity, instead of anything singular.

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