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Thread: How much of the Yamnaya-like Ancestry in the People from Dagestan is real?

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    How much of the Yamnaya-like Ancestry in the People from Dagestan is real?

    Like the thread title says, how much of the Yamnaya or steppe-like ancestry in the people from Dagestan and surrounds, like the Dargins, Kubachinian, Lak and Avars is real. In many comparisons they seem to have Northern and Eastern European like levels of Yamnaya related ancestry. Did anyone try to differentiate it with more elobarate tools from a general Caucasian basal ancestry and is this even possible and meaningful?

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    The steppe people live in Digor Ossetian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digor_Ossetian
    Their Y-DNA r1b-Y5886

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    To give an impression of what I mean, here is a crude G25 run:
    Darginians_Prehistoric_Run1.jpg

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    They actually have less (39%) than, for example, the Germans (46%). What can increase exponentially the amount of Steppe is the strong component of CHG present in those populations (Laks, Kubachinians, Darginians). Without counting it, 20% of their DNA originates in the Steppes.

    Distance GEO_CHG TUR_Boncuklu_N RUS_Sidelkino_HG IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N RUS_AfontovaGora3 Levant_Natufian TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
    Darginian 0.04820021 42.6 25.8 13.2 9.4 8.8 0.2 0.0
    Kubachinian 0.04771622 44.2 24.0 14.8 9.8 5.4 1.8 0.0
    Lak 0.04708168 41.8 20.6 13.8 11.0 6.4 3.6 2.8

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    I don't know this data. I need to get acquainted first.
    I don't know anything about Y-DNA G, J2 from Yamna culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Like the thread title says, how much of the Yamnaya or steppe-like ancestry in the people from Dagestan and surrounds, like the Dargins, Kubachinian, Lak and Avars is real. In many comparisons they seem to have Northern and Eastern European like levels of Yamnaya related ancestry. Did anyone try to differentiate it with more elobarate tools from a general Caucasian basal ancestry and is this even possible and meaningful?
    I presuppose all what you see. Yamnaya is roughly half CGH and half EHG. Daghestanians will have a surplus of CHG so EHG will be the limited component. If you take EHG twice, that will roughly be Yamnaya proportion. Here the result for two population averages:

    https://imgur.com/Bk5jApe

    It corresponds with 40-50% Yamnaya and fits to what you displayed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    They actually have less (39%) than, for example, the Germans (46%). What can increase exponentially the amount of Steppe is the strong component of CHG present in those populations (Laks, Kubachinians, Darginians). Without counting it, 20% of their DNA originates in the Steppes.
    But that would mean that all of this EHG came into the region in pre-steppe times, even before the Progress sample, which I think is possible for some amount of it, but surely not for all of it. So what your run proves is that a relatively very high amount of real steppe ancestry is likely, unless we miss something in the calculation and its for example a disproportionally high ANE component in the local CHG base or something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rothaer View Post
    I presuppose all what you see. Yamnaya is roughly half CGH and half EHG. Daghestanians will have a surplus of CHG so EHG will be the limited component. If you take EHG twice, that will roughly be Yamnaya proportion. Here the result for two population averages:

    It corresponds with 40-50% Yamnaya and fits to what you displayed.
    That's really high, I just wonder whether there is any other model to explain it in part. And its also interesting that they all speak non-Indo-European languages. They seem all to have a predominance of J1+J2 in theri yDNA, which might be the main part of the explanation. Like PIE did take Caucasian-shifted women, they might have taken steppe-shifted ones. But probably we need to dig deeper into this.

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