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Thread: G25 Ancients

  1. #1
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    Germany Curacao Sweden

    G25 Ancients

    Here are my father's g25 ancient averages and ancient individual samples. Share yours on this thread and/or give interpretation for others.

    G25 Ancient Average:
     
    Target: btree_father_scaled
    Distance: 1.5601% / 0.01560098
    34.6 Levant_LBN_MA_o2
    15.2 USA_colonial_period
    12.2 Levant_LBN_MA_o6
    8.6 England_Saxon
    6.4 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    6.0 TUR_Kumtepe_N_low_res
    3.2 Levant_PPNC
    2.0 HUN_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN
    1.8 RUS_Srubnaya_MLBA_o
    1.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o
    1.4 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Euro
    0.6 CHE_FN_steppe
    0.4 RUS_KPT005
    0.2 PER_Cuncaicha_3300BP


    G25 Ancient Ind. Samples
     
    Target: btree_father_scaled
    Distance: 0.8521% / 0.00852077
    22.8 HUN_MA_Szolad
    20.8 FRA_BA
    19.0 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian
    9.6 KAZ_Kairan_MLBA
    6.6 HUN_LBK_MN
    5.6 TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC
    3.8 Baltic_EST_BA
    3.0 Iberia_East_IA
    2.4 TUR_Kumtepe_N_low_res
    2.2 FRA_IA
    1.8 DNK_BA
    0.8 DEU_MA
    0.8 RUS_Afanasievo
    0.6 USA_Mainland_Chumash
    0.2 DEU_Welzin_BA


    He's half Swedish and 1/5 Ashkenazi on 23andme (also has possible Sephardic Jew origins).
    23andme: 20.2% Scandinavian, 18.7% French & German, 2.9% British & Irish, 0.8% Finnish, 28.8% Eastern European, 4.8% Ashkenazic Jewish, 2.1% Southern European
    Paper: 50% Scandinavian(+JewishAncestry), 37.5% Eastern German, 12.5% Polish

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  3. #2
    Gold Class Member
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    England Scotland Ireland German Confederation Italy Two Sicilies France
    Hello btree,

    Here are mine:

    Averages:

    Target: JMcB_scaled
    Distance: 1.2667% / 0.01266727 | ADC: 0.5x

    34.4 England_Roman
    28.2 ISL_Viking_Age_Early_Christian
    15.6 CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
    9.4 ITA_Collegno_MA
    9.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1
    3.2 DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3


    Distance to: JMcB_scaled
    0.02218698 England_Roman
    0.02519668 Bell_Beaker_CZE
    0.02537712 England_IA
    0.02552753 Bell_Beaker_FRA_C
    0.02599107 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
    0.02616322 ISL_Viking_Age_Early_Christian
    0.02847094 DEU_Lech_EBA
    0.02857885 DEU_Singen_EBA
    0.02886018 DEU_MA


    and Individuals:


    Target: JMcB_scaled
    Distance: 1.3321% / 0.01332064 | ADC: 1x

    38.8 HUN_MA_Szolad
    25.2 England_Roman
    18.0 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna
    9.6 DEU_Singen_EBA
    7.2 ITA_Collegno_MA
    1.2 DEU_Lech_EBA


    Unaggregated:

    Target: JMcB_scaled
    Distance: 1.3321% / 0.01332064 | ADC: 1x

    38.8 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ38
    18.0 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035
    12.8 England_Roman:3DT16
    12.4 England_Roman:6DT22
    9.6 DEU_Singen_EBA:MX288
    7.2 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL84
    1.2 DEU_Lech_EBA:AITI_2



    Distance to: JMcB_scaled
    0.02371200 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ38
    0.02471921 England_Roman:6DT22
    0.02484472 SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_grt035
    0.02488375 England_Roman:3DT16
    0.02614464 ITA_Collegno_MA:CL84
    0.02875004 Scotland_LBA:I2859
    0.02886117 ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:SBT-A-1
    0.02895549 England_Saxon:I0161
    0.02906486 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ42
    0.02909576 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I6590
    Paper Trail: 43.8% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

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  5. #3
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    Greece Australia
    Added my own labels (correct me if I'm wrong about them) and displayed aggregated and non-aggregated:

    Code:
    Target: 23abc_scaled
    Distance: 1.5159% / 0.01515933
    39.6	Greek_MA
    22.6	Iran_IA
    16.8	West_Anatolia_BA
    5.4	Baltic_Late_Antiquity
    5.0	East_Anatolia_BA
    4.6	Levant_BA
    4.4	Egyptian_Roman
    0.8	France_IA
    0.8	MAR_EN
    
    Target: 23abc_scaled
    Distance: 1.5160% / 0.01515980
    27.6	Greek_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
    22.4	Iran_IA:IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    16.2	West_Anatolia_BA:TUR_Isparta_EBA
    12.2	Greek_MA:DEU_MA_o
    5.8	East_Anatolia_BA:TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
    5.4	Baltic_Late_Antiquity:Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    4.6	Egyptian_Roman:England_Roman_Near_Eastern_o
    3.0	Levant_BA:Levant_Megiddo_IBA
    1.2	Levant_BA:Levant_Yehud_IBA
    0.8	MAR_EN
    0.8	France_IA:FRA_IA_north
    What is the reason for the strong affinity for IRN_Hajji_Firuz?
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by My G25 Coords
    23abc_scaled,0.10927,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.052972,0.006463,-0.010598,-0.003525,0.002308,-0.010431,0.016037,0.002923,-0.006145,-0.003717,0.00523,-0.007736,0.000133,-0.002347,0.008488,0.001006,-0.005253,-0.005865,-0.006801,0.006039,0.00253,0.000718

    23abc,0.0096,0.015,-0.006,-0.0164,0.0021,-0.0038,-0.0015,0.001,-0.0051,0.0088,0.0018,-0.0041,-0.0025,0.0038,-0.0057,0.0001,-0.0018,0.0067,0.0008,-0.0042,-0.0047,-0.0055,0.0049,0.0021,0.0006

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    Added my own labels (correct me if I'm wrong about them) and displayed aggregated and non-aggregated:

    Code:
    Target: 23abc_scaled
    Distance: 1.5159% / 0.01515933
    39.6	Greek_MA
    22.6	Iran_IA
    16.8	West_Anatolia_BA
    5.4	Baltic_Late_Antiquity
    5.0	East_Anatolia_BA
    4.6	Levant_BA
    4.4	Egyptian_Roman
    0.8	France_IA
    0.8	MAR_EN
    
    Target: 23abc_scaled
    Distance: 1.5160% / 0.01515980
    27.6	Greek_MA:HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
    22.4	Iran_IA:IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    16.2	West_Anatolia_BA:TUR_Isparta_EBA
    12.2	Greek_MA:DEU_MA_o
    5.8	East_Anatolia_BA:TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
    5.4	Baltic_Late_Antiquity:Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    4.6	Egyptian_Roman:England_Roman_Near_Eastern_o
    3.0	Levant_BA:Levant_Megiddo_IBA
    1.2	Levant_BA:Levant_Yehud_IBA
    0.8	MAR_EN
    0.8	France_IA:FRA_IA_north
    What is the reason for the strong affinity for IRN_Hajji_Firuz?
    Greek Islanders tend to have significant IRN_N and CHG ancestral components. My guess is that you are scoring a high percent in this run because the "Greek_MA" samples doesn't have as much as you do and the model is compensating. If you turn up the penalty, it may go away.

    Target: 23abc_scaled(Kalymnos)
    Distance: 3.6686% / 0.03668578
    54.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    17.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    12.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    8.2 GEO_CHG

    7.6 Levant_Natufian

    Target: DEU_MA_o
    Distance: 4.1712% / 0.04171225
    71.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    20.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    4.2 GEO_CHG
    3.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


    Target: HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
    Distance: 3.8338% / 0.03833815
    74.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    24.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    1.2 GEO_CHG


    Here is me for comparison.

    Target: GS_scaled
    Distance: 1.3776% / 0.01377595 | ADC: 0.25x
    68.2 IND_Roopkund_B
    21.4 DEU_MA_o
    4.0 Levant_PPNB
    2.4 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Euro
    2.4 TUR_Kumtepe_N_low_res
    1.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
    0.6 TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC

    Target: GS_scaled
    Distance: 0.8616% / 0.00861619
    32.2 DEU_MA_o
    14.0 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Euro
    12.2 Levant_LBN_MA
    8.6 TUR_Tell_Kurdu_MC
    7.4 TUR_Titris_Hoyuk_EBA
    4.0 England_Roman_Near_Eastern_o
    4.0 UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky
    3.6 RUS_Saltovo-Mayaki_low_res
    3.2 TUR_Isparta_EBA
    2.6 TUR_Kumtepe_N_low_res
    2.4 DEU_LBK_KD
    1.8 CHE_FN_steppe
    1.6 HRV_Starcevo_LN
    0.6 GRC_N
    0.6 MAR_EN
    0.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
    0.4 SRB_N
    0.2 Levant_ISR_C
    0.2 TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    Greek Islanders tend to have significant IRN_N and CHG ancestral components. My guess is that you are scoring a high percent in this run because the "Greek_MA" samples doesn't have as much as you do and the model is compensating.
    Do you think the increased IRN_N is from actual Persians or is it just from eastern Anatolians? Also, do you think the samples I labelled 'Greek_MA' are more likely from areas of the Balkans north of Greece? Or are they actually good for modelling MA Greek ancestry?
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by My G25 Coords
    23abc_scaled,0.10927,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.052972,0.006463,-0.010598,-0.003525,0.002308,-0.010431,0.016037,0.002923,-0.006145,-0.003717,0.00523,-0.007736,0.000133,-0.002347,0.008488,0.001006,-0.005253,-0.005865,-0.006801,0.006039,0.00253,0.000718

    23abc,0.0096,0.015,-0.006,-0.0164,0.0021,-0.0038,-0.0015,0.001,-0.0051,0.0088,0.0018,-0.0041,-0.0025,0.0038,-0.0057,0.0001,-0.0018,0.0067,0.0008,-0.0042,-0.0047,-0.0055,0.0049,0.0021,0.0006

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23abc View Post
    Do you think the increased IRN_N is from actual Persians or is it just from eastern Anatolians? Also, do you think the samples I labelled 'Greek_MA' are more likely from areas of the Balkans north of Greece? Or are they actually good for modelling MA Greek ancestry?
    Checking the distances, I think there are some more likely candidate as MA Greeks, at least Islanders/Western Anatolian Greeks. I think those other samples are Balkan-like, but HUN_MA_Szolad_o1, specifically, doesn't seem to have enough CHG/IRN_N to be a Greek, IMO.

    I haven't read or heard anyone suggest direct Persian ancestry in Greeks, it is probably a component brought from Eastern Anatolia/Northern Levant? as you mention.

    Distance to: Greek_Kos
    0.01380554 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.01493259 ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
    0.02312003 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.03564354 IND_Roopkund_B_o
    0.03872089 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.03950397 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.03951072 TUR_Barcin_C
    0.04225606 Levant_Ashkelon_IA1
    0.04333741 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    0.04350657 TUR_Ovaoren_EBA
    0.04376262 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    0.04380114 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    0.04566888 TUR_Isparta_EBA
    0.04653594 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.04926206 Levant_LBN_MA_o3
    0.05100394 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.05114549 ITA_Sardinia_Late_Antiquity
    0.05146291 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
    0.05330730 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.05333608 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    0.05416631 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    0.05437990 BGR_IA
    0.05470942 DEU_MA_o
    0.05486361 TUR_Arslantepe_LC
    0.05619725 TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC

    Distance to: Greek_Crete
    0.01581326 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.01985659 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.02179405 ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
    0.03766743 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    0.03774461 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.03790167 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    0.04031641 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.04265559 IND_Roopkund_B_o
    0.04290642 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.04690220 TUR_Barcin_C
    0.04866521 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
    0.04928369 Levant_Ashkelon_IA1
    0.04932736 ITA_Rome_MA
    0.05204602 DEU_MA_o
    0.05216033 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    0.05295375 ITA_Sardinia_Late_Antiquity
    0.05356276 BGR_IA
    0.05415015 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.05469676 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    0.05562459 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.05563018 TUR_Ovaoren_EBA
    0.05694318 Levant_LBN_MA_o3
    0.05725023 ARM_Areni_C
    0.05848609 TUR_Isparta_EBA
    0.06041601 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1

    Distance to: GS_scaled
    0.02079597 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.03384112 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.03451696 ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
    0.03547274 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.03572902 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.03652253 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.04060424 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    0.04224017 DEU_MA_o
    0.04474775 ITA_Rome_MA
    0.04595613 BGR_IA
    0.05040409 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    0.05202107 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.05259386 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.05293289 ITA_Sardinia_Late_Antiquity
    0.05794573 IND_Roopkund_B_o
    0.05802938 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
    0.05839256 Levant_Ashkelon_IA1
    0.05871510 HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
    0.06001677 TUR_Barcin_C
    0.06251645 Scythian_MDA
    0.06393034 HRV_EBA
    0.06448607 TUR_Isparta_EBA
    0.06549495 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
    0.06616552 TUR_Ovaoren_EBA
    0.06624528 UKR_Cimmerian_o

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  13. #7
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    My Greek friend's

    Individual Samples scaled
     

    Target: Chris_scaled
    Distance: 0.9100% / 0.00909959 | ADC: 0.25x
    52.8 IND_Roopkund_B
    22.6 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    8.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    5.2 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    4.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
    3.6 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
    2.0 Levant_Ashkelon_IA1
    1.0 ARM_Areni_C
    0.6 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
    0.2 ITA_Rome_MA


    Averages scaled
     

    Target: Chris_scaled
    Distance: 1.3703% / 0.01370292 | ADC: 0.25x
    71.4 IND_Roopkund_B
    11.2 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    6.2 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    4.6 DEU_Singen_EIA
    4.0 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    1.4 CHE_FN_steppe
    0.8 TKM_Gonur3_BA
    0.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA

    Target: Chris_scaled
    Distance: 0.6713% / 0.00671339
    28.2 GRC_Peloponnese_N
    15.0 UKR_Sredny_Stog_En_o4
    13.2 TUR_Titris_Hoyuk_EBA
    12.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    7.4 DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier2
    4.4 DEU_MA_o
    4.4 HRV_Starcevo_LN
    3.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res
    2.0 TKM_Gonur3_BA
    1.8 Baltic_EST_BA
    1.8 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash
    1.4 CHE_FN_steppe
    1.2 DEU_Singen_EIA
    1.0 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    0.8 MAR_Taforalt
    0.6 Saka_Tian_Shan_o
    0.4 UZB_Bustan_En

    Distance to: Chris_scaled
    0.01903705 IND_Roopkund_B
    0.02702706 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
    0.02776688 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
    0.02913449 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.03559353 ITA_Rome_MA
    0.03957394 ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
    0.04010910 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.04060223 ITA_Rome_Imperial
    0.04798160 Scythian_MDA
    0.04805066 BGR_IA
    0.05174733 HRV_EBA
    0.05198028 DEU_MA_o
    0.05440257 UKR_Cimmerian_o
    0.05448237 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
    0.05568437 ITA_Proto-Villanovan
    0.05672739 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
    0.06006309 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.06016806 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.06132114 TUR_Barcin_C
    0.06141704 HRV_MBA
    0.06156222 ITA_Sardinia_Late_Antiquity
    0.06200676 HRV_IA
    0.06244168 IND_Roopkund_B_o
    0.06254171 HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
    0.06535686 ARM_Areni_C

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  15. #8
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    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    The Iran N component among Greek people has nothing to do with Persians lol.It is a component that arrived in Greece probably with migrations from Anatolia or the Levant.Now what period exactly is the main question...we need samples for it,but i am not avoiding the fact that during IA West Anatolian Greeks from Ionia carried components like CHG/Iran N and Levant N.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.4987% / 0.01498655
    51.8 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    24.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    14.8 Levant_Baqah_BA
    5.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    3.4 RUS_Catacomb

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  17. #9
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    G2a2b1 M406> FGC5081

    Byzantine Empire Empire of Trebizond Greek Macedonia Greece
    Keep in mind also that Iran N and CHG have been found among Myceneans.So it is not such a foreign for Greeks in general.Minoans as well carried these admixtures.
    Target: Ioannis_scaled
    Distance: 1.4987% / 0.01498655
    51.8 TUR_Ikiztepe_LC
    24.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    14.8 Levant_Baqah_BA
    5.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    3.4 RUS_Catacomb

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  19. #10
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    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V13

    Albania
    The closest population to me is the Hungarian Szolad samples. I think they are samples from early middle age from western Hungary which was part of Pannonia before.



    Distance to: Hawk_scaled

    0.03299762 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ43
    0.03438320 IND_Roopkund_B:I6936
    0.03482785 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ36
    0.03756047 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ37
    0.03832633 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR55
    0.03939553 IND_Roopkund_B:I3404
    0.03943402 Scythian_MDA:scy192
    0.03964654 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR33
    0.04018759 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR36
    0.04031992 Scythian_MDA:scy197
    0.04085139 DEU_MA_ACD:NW_54
    0.04117742 ITA_Etruscan:RMPR474b
    0.04135765 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR970
    0.04174284 HRV_MBA:I4331
    0.04206426 HUN_BA:I7043
    0.04232969 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ28
    0.04239937 ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR1287
    0.04252108 ITA_Proto-Villanovan:RMPR1
    0.04253080 UKR_Cimmerian_o:MJ12
    0.04254209 Levant_LBN_MA_o4:SI-53
    0.04297053 HRV_EBA:I3499
    0.04341950 HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ32
    0.04392579 Scythian_MDA:scy305
    0.04399249 DEU_MA_ACD:STR_310
    0.04423490 HRV_IA:I3313

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hawk For This Useful Post:

     btree (08-01-2020),  Greekscholar (08-03-2020),  TonyC (08-03-2020)

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