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Thread: Kashmiri Results

  1. #1
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    Kashmiri Results

    Hi All, I have just recently joined. I didn't see a thread for Kashmiri results so I thought I should start one! I have a bit of a mystery, too, if maybe someone could help...but first, results.

    My Kashmiri Pandit Results:


    My 23andMe:
    Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 3.18.35 PM.pngScreen Shot 2020-07-01 at 3.18.22 PM.png
    307 Neanderthal Variants. Maternal Haplogroup U7, Paternal Haplogroup RM417

    GEDMatch:
    Baloch- 37.72
    S Indian- 31.30
    Caucasian- 15.14
    NE Euro 8.75
    NE Asian 3.11
    SW Asian 2.12
    Beringian-0.77
    American 0.56
    Mediterranean 0.24.


    Gedrosia Ancient (6):
    Ancestral_North_Eurasian 37.18 Pct
    Ancestral_South_Eurasian 16.87 Pct
    East_Asian 6.71 Pct
    West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 8.94 Pct
    Natufian 29.69 Pct
    Sub_Saharan 0.61 Pct


    Gedrosia K12:

    Population
    S_INDIAN 34.81 Pct
    SUB_SAHARAN -
    EARLY_EUROPEAN_FARMERS 2.02 Pct
    SW_ASIAN 8.27 Pct
    W_SIBERIAN -
    SE_ASIAN 1.37 Pct
    BALOCHI 23.91 Pct
    SINTASHTA_STEPPE_HERDERS 9.36 Pct
    INDO_TIBETAN 3.07 Pct
    CAUCASUS 15.52 Pct
    E_AFRICAN 0.33 Pct
    E_SIBERIAN 1.36 Pct


    So, here is the mystery. Nestled amongst all my moms kashmiri relatives on 23andme (we're a very endogamous community) are three fourth cousins, 2 of whom are Iranian and one who is half Greek half Mexican. My mother scores a small amount of cypriot (0.8%) which stays at 90% confidence. Are these cousins just likely remnants of ancient ancestry or something more recent? She has more distant cousins from farther reaches of the world but these three are interestingly right between all her kashmiri Pandit 2-4th cousins. The half greek cousin is her predicted 4th cousin with 0.31% shared and 24 cM. The Iranian cousins are predicted 4th cousins with 0.26% and 20 cM shared. I would not have thought much of it if they were not nestled amongst all the Kashmiri Pandit cousins.

    Here are my moms Gedrosia Results:

    k12:

    Population
    S_INDIAN 37.79 Pct
    SUB_SAHARAN -
    EARLY_EUROPEAN_FARMERS 4.12 Pct
    SW_ASIAN 2.66 Pct
    W_SIBERIAN -
    SE_ASIAN 1.14 Pct
    BALOCHI 19.87 Pct
    SINTASHTA_STEPPE_HERDERS 10.81 Pct
    INDO_TIBETAN 2.49 Pct
    CAUCASUS 17.67 Pct
    E_AFRICAN 1.04 Pct
    E_SIBERIAN 2.41 Pct


    K6 (Ancient):
    Ancestral_North_Eurasian 37.53 Pct
    Ancestral_South_Eurasian 18.82 Pct
    East_Asian 6.53 Pct
    West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 9.49 Pct
    Natufian 26.48 Pct
    Sub_Saharan 1.14 Pct

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpb View Post
    Hi All, I have just recently joined. I didn't see a thread for Kashmiri results so I thought I should start one! I have a bit of a mystery, too, if maybe someone could help...but first, results.

    My Kashmiri Pandit Results:


    My 23andMe:
    Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 3.18.35 PM.pngScreen Shot 2020-07-01 at 3.18.22 PM.png
    307 Neanderthal Variants. Maternal Haplogroup U7, Paternal Haplogroup RM417

    GEDMatch:
    Baloch- 37.72
    S Indian- 31.30
    Caucasian- 15.14
    NE Euro 8.75
    NE Asian 3.11
    SW Asian 2.12
    Beringian-0.77
    American 0.56
    Mediterranean 0.24.


    Gedrosia Ancient (6):
    Ancestral_North_Eurasian 37.18 Pct
    Ancestral_South_Eurasian 16.87 Pct
    East_Asian 6.71 Pct
    West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 8.94 Pct
    Natufian 29.69 Pct
    Sub_Saharan 0.61 Pct


    Gedrosia K12:

    Population
    S_INDIAN 34.81 Pct
    SUB_SAHARAN -
    EARLY_EUROPEAN_FARMERS 2.02 Pct
    SW_ASIAN 8.27 Pct
    W_SIBERIAN -
    SE_ASIAN 1.37 Pct
    BALOCHI 23.91 Pct
    SINTASHTA_STEPPE_HERDERS 9.36 Pct
    INDO_TIBETAN 3.07 Pct
    CAUCASUS 15.52 Pct
    E_AFRICAN 0.33 Pct
    E_SIBERIAN 1.36 Pct


    So, here is the mystery. Nestled amongst all my moms kashmiri relatives on 23andme (we're a very endogamous community) are three fourth cousins, 2 of whom are Iranian and one who is half Greek half Mexican. My mother scores a small amount of cypriot (0.8%) which stays at 90% confidence. Are these cousins just likely remnants of ancient ancestry or something more recent? She has more distant cousins from farther reaches of the world but these three are interestingly right between all her kashmiri Pandit 2-4th cousins. The half greek cousin is her predicted 4th cousin with 0.31% shared and 24 cM. The Iranian cousins are predicted 4th cousins with 0.26% and 20 cM shared. I would not have thought much of it if they were not nestled amongst all the Kashmiri Pandit cousins.

    Here are my moms Gedrosia Results:

    k12:

    Population
    S_INDIAN 37.79 Pct
    SUB_SAHARAN -
    EARLY_EUROPEAN_FARMERS 4.12 Pct
    SW_ASIAN 2.66 Pct
    W_SIBERIAN -
    SE_ASIAN 1.14 Pct
    BALOCHI 19.87 Pct
    SINTASHTA_STEPPE_HERDERS 10.81 Pct
    INDO_TIBETAN 2.49 Pct
    CAUCASUS 17.67 Pct
    E_AFRICAN 1.04 Pct
    E_SIBERIAN 2.41 Pct


    K6 (Ancient):
    Ancestral_North_Eurasian 37.53 Pct
    Ancestral_South_Eurasian 18.82 Pct
    East_Asian 6.53 Pct
    West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 9.49 Pct
    Natufian 26.48 Pct
    Sub_Saharan 1.14 Pct
    If you can get your and your mom's G25 coordinates from Eurogenes it would be really helpful as there is only 1 Kashmiri Pandit sample who by the looks of it is quite similar to you. I would not take much stock in segment matching. Its possible your mom has some minor Hellenic ancestry . Can you post her Harappa results and oracles. Thanks

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  5. #3
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    Her HarappaWorld:
    1 Baloch 37.83
    2 S-Indian 31.32
    3 Caucasian 14.34
    4 NE-Euro 9.17
    5 NE-Asian 2.23
    6 American 1.99
    7 Beringian 1.33
    8 Mediterranean 1.28

    I am not sure how to do the G25 Coordinates from Eurogenes...is there someone I can reach out to about how to do this? I've just been browsing and noticed that both my mom and I have higher western european hunter gatherer in the Ancient 6 calculator, I wonder what thats about?

    Oops, forgot the oracles...:

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 kashmiri_harappa @ 2.601096
    2 kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 3.553650
    3 punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 4.366824
    4 punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 4.708214
    5 punjabi_harappa @ 5.085879
    6 pushtikar-brahmin_harappa @ 5.691592
    7 punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 5.751579

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% kashmiri_harappa +50% kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 2.157311

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% kashmiri_harappa +25% kashmiri_harappa +25% punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.975056

    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri_harappa + punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 1.975056
    2 burusho_hgdp + gujarati-patel_harappa + kerala-nair_harappa + urkarah_xing @ 2.025925
    3 kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 2.099597
    4 burusho_hgdp + goan_harappa + gujarati-patel_harappa + urkarah_xing @ 2.110043
    5 burusho_hgdp + gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-nair_harappa + urkarah_xing @ 2.121072
    6 kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri_harappa + kashmiri-pandit_reich + kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 2.157311
    7 burusho_hgdp + gujarati_harappa + gujarati-patel_harappa + urkarah_xing @ 2.161678
    8 burusho_hgdp + goan_harappa + gujarati-a_hapmap + urkarah_xing @ 2.164371

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    If you can get your and your mom's G25 coordinates from Eurogenes it would be really helpful as there is only 1 Kashmiri Pandit sample who by the looks of it is quite similar to you. I would not take much stock in segment matching. Its possible your mom has some minor Hellenic ancestry . Can you post her Harappa results and oracles. Thanks
    I had a few Greek relatives too. It's not that uncommon. But usually it's Western Europeans like Germans, English, Dutch etc. Those I match a lot.

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  9. #5
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    Yes, we do have farther cousins that are Western European and Afghan, but it was just interesting because the first full three pages of DNA Relatives are all Kashmiri Pandits but towards of the top of the second page, this Greek name and two Iranian names popped up which really stuck out from all the KP names! But as I mentioned in my previous reply, my mothers Western European Hunter Gatherer seems unusually high at least compared to other Ancient K6 results I was looking through on this site.

  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    If you can get your and your mom's G25 coordinates from Eurogenes it would be really helpful as there is only 1 Kashmiri Pandit sample who by the looks of it is quite similar to you. I would not take much stock in segment matching. Its possible your mom has some minor Hellenic ancestry . Can you post her Harappa results and oracles. Thanks
    I agree with this. G25 is the way to go. Also, I checked 23andme precision and recall rates for Cypriot, and its high precision & low recall. With it being so stubborn and also some dna relatives having it, it has a higher chance of being valid (respectively). Like pegasus said, I wouldn't rely much on segment matching but you can connect with the dna relative and see if you have any genealogical connections through actual lineage rather than just genetics.
    23andme: 20.2% Scandinavian, 18.7% French & German, 2.9% British & Irish, 0.8% Finnish, 28.8% Eastern European, 4.8% Ashkenazic Jewish, 2.1% Southern European
    Paper: 50% Scandinavian(+JewishAncestry), 37.5% Eastern German, 12.5% Polish

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpb View Post
    I am not sure how to do the G25 Coordinates from Eurogenes...is there someone I can reach out to about how to do this? I've just been browsing and noticed that both my mom and I have higher western european hunter gatherer in the Ancient 6 calculator, I wonder what thats about?
    Here is a thread that has some instructions and links:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....390#post688390
    23andme: 20.2% Scandinavian, 18.7% French & German, 2.9% British & Irish, 0.8% Finnish, 28.8% Eastern European, 4.8% Ashkenazic Jewish, 2.1% Southern European
    Paper: 50% Scandinavian(+JewishAncestry), 37.5% Eastern German, 12.5% Polish

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  14. #8
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    Until I am able to do the G25, here are my and my moms oracles for the Gedrosia k12

    Mine:

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% GujaratiC +50% Uzbek_Afghan @ 8.238470


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Punjabi_Sikh +25% Syrian +25% UP_Muslim @ 4.041078


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
    1 GujaratiC + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + Syrian @ 3.418285
    2 Assyrian + Nihali + Punjabi_Sikh + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.486168
    3 Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + UP_Muslim @ 3.567509
    4 Assyrian + Gond + Punjabi_Sikh + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.635673
    5 AP_Chenchu + Assyrian + Punjabi_Sikh + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.638347
    6 Gond + Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Pathan + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.718196
    7 Kurds_F + Kurds_SE + Nihali + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.774622
    8 Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Nihali + Pathan + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.806923
    9 GujaratiA + GujaratiC + Punjabi_Sikh + Syrian @ 3.824629
    10 Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + UP_Kol @ 3.842690









    My Moms:
    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Tajik_Pomiri +50% UP_Muslim @ 6.080720


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% GujaratiA +25% GujaratiC +25% Turks_Aydin @ 3.517692


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 GujaratiC + Punjabi_Sikh + Turks_Balikesir + UP_Brahmin @ 3.252050
    2 Gond + GujaratiC + Kurds_E + Tajik_Pomiri @ 3.272086
    3 GujaratiC + Kurds_C + Tajik_Pomiri + UP_Kol @ 3.314250
    4 Gond + GujaratiC + Kurds_C + Tajik_Pomiri @ 3.383378
    5 GujaratiB + Punjabi_Sikh + Turks_Balikesir + UP_Muslim @ 3.389361
    6 GujaratiA + GujaratiC + Nepali + Turks_Istanbul @ 3.390235
    7 Kanjar + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + Turks_Balikesir @ 3.405434
    8 GujaratiC + Kanjar + Kurds_C + Tajik_Pomiri @ 3.407524
    9 GujaratiC + Kurds_E + Tajik_Pomiri + UP_Caste @ 3.428733

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpb View Post
    Until I am able to do the G25, here are my and my moms oracles for the Gedrosia k12

    Mine:

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% GujaratiC +50% Uzbek_Afghan @ 8.238470


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Punjabi_Sikh +25% Syrian +25% UP_Muslim @ 4.041078


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
    1 GujaratiC + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + Syrian @ 3.418285
    2 Assyrian + Nihali + Punjabi_Sikh + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.486168
    3 Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + UP_Muslim @ 3.567509
    4 Assyrian + Gond + Punjabi_Sikh + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.635673
    5 AP_Chenchu + Assyrian + Punjabi_Sikh + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.638347
    6 Gond + Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Pathan + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.718196
    7 Kurds_F + Kurds_SE + Nihali + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.774622
    8 Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Nihali + Pathan + Punjabi_Sikh @ 3.806923
    9 GujaratiA + GujaratiC + Punjabi_Sikh + Syrian @ 3.824629
    10 Iraqi_Arab_Baghdad + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + UP_Kol @ 3.842690









    My Moms:
    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Tajik_Pomiri +50% UP_Muslim @ 6.080720


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% GujaratiA +25% GujaratiC +25% Turks_Aydin @ 3.517692


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 GujaratiC + Punjabi_Sikh + Turks_Balikesir + UP_Brahmin @ 3.252050
    2 Gond + GujaratiC + Kurds_E + Tajik_Pomiri @ 3.272086
    3 GujaratiC + Kurds_C + Tajik_Pomiri + UP_Kol @ 3.314250
    4 Gond + GujaratiC + Kurds_C + Tajik_Pomiri @ 3.383378
    5 GujaratiB + Punjabi_Sikh + Turks_Balikesir + UP_Muslim @ 3.389361
    6 GujaratiA + GujaratiC + Nepali + Turks_Istanbul @ 3.390235
    7 Kanjar + Nepali + Punjabi_Sikh + Turks_Balikesir @ 3.405434
    8 GujaratiC + Kanjar + Kurds_C + Tajik_Pomiri @ 3.407524
    9 GujaratiC + Kurds_E + Tajik_Pomiri + UP_Caste @ 3.428733
    It is somewhat hard to uncover smaller ancestry like your mom's 0.8% Cypriot on GEDmatch. Especially with oracles, as it is not significant enough to show up as a population approximation since it is less than 1%. You could go use the chromosome segment browser on 23andme for your mom and find the segment that is labeled as Cypriot. Then, use GEDmatch's chromosome painting tool to see if a similar admix shows up in the same place consistently. This won't be a really effective method, but you can try it at least.
    23andme: 20.2% Scandinavian, 18.7% French & German, 2.9% British & Irish, 0.8% Finnish, 28.8% Eastern European, 4.8% Ashkenazic Jewish, 2.1% Southern European
    Paper: 50% Scandinavian(+JewishAncestry), 37.5% Eastern German, 12.5% Polish

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  18. #10
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    I see what you're saying. I guess I am just trying to parse through everything since its relatively new to me. Upon comparing its just a few things that stuck out to me that I am trying to figure out aside from what I already mentioned.

    1) 23andme gave me a lot of central asian. I dont know if they are picking up ancient ancestry or recent.
    2) gedmatch gave me higher Caucasian than most kashmiris, so figuring out if that may be recent or ancient.
    3) My mother and I both score very high western european hunter gatherer in gedrosia K6. I've only seen on this site so far one pashtun and a few tajiks who score as high (in comparison to the indian subcontinent).
    4) I also seem to score a very high southwest asian score on the K12 comparatively to other south asian results. Presumably this is from my father.

    I'm posting all this in hopes there may be people more well-versed (I am quite clearly very new to this haha) than I in south asian genetics to speak to what any of these points may signal if anything at all! I'm so curious about my genetic history given we're supposedly a very endogamous group.

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