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Thread: Kashmiri Results

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    As far as I know, the Kidarites have existed the longest in Northwest India and thus in the Kashmir region, I can also imagine that they have grown into the local population over time.
    Did they leave any genetic legacy?.

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by bol_nat View Post
    Are KP similar to Khatris/aroras if we take out NE asian like ancestry?
    Yes more or less but they show a more Okunevo like shift which is not there in most Khatris/Aroras, on qpAdm this is best accounted for using Steppe MLBA populations which mixed with Okunevo like people. Though the main Steppe source for them is still Corded Ware -Srubna like sources. Btw could you run the admixture results for those 3 samples from the Near East paper ( Alalakh_o, Meggido outliers) if you can, thanks.

  4. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Did they leave any genetic legacy?.
    I think the Kidarites belonged to the Iranian Huns later they were exposed to pressure from the Sasanians and their remaining empire lasted the longest in the Gandhara region until they were driven out by another group (Alchon) and the mighty Gupta, empire on the other side but at that time the Gupta empire was embroiled in internal problems and the Kidarites had the potential to advance further south, but other "Hunas groups" did so later, so to speak, the Gupta empire broke up under the Alchon. Difficult to say with that genetic heritage, unfortunately no answer to this question.
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  6. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    I think the Kidarites belonged to the Iranian Huns later they were exposed to pressure from the Sasanians and their remaining empire lasted the longest in the Gandhara region until they were driven out by another group (Alchon) and the mighty Gupta, empire on the other side but at that time the Gupta empire was embroiled in internal problems and the Kidarites had the potential to advance further south, but other "Hunas groups" did so later, so to speak, the Gupta empire broke up under the Alchon. Difficult to say with that genetic heritage, unfortunately no answer to this question.
    I guess it depends if any Kidarite grave sites are found.

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  8. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    I guess it depends if any Kidarite grave sites are found.
    That is an important point, the question is also which burial rites / types were practiced, you know more about that. An example of Tillya Tepe that is likely from Sakas or Kushan
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  9. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    That is an important point, the question is also which burial rites / types were practiced, you know more about that. An example of Tillya Tepe that is likely from Sakas or Kushan
    I have no clue if they practiced cremations.

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  11. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    I have no clue if they practiced cremations.
    It would be possible what you have picked up from the local population of the northern subcontinent then Hindu - Buddhist influence
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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    It would be possible what you have picked up from the local population of the northern subcontinent then Hindu - Buddhist influence
    Whether they practiced cremation or burial, we may never find out. The problem is given the fact that in Kashmir, as in much of South Asia, graveyards often disappear, with human settlements over them. Although this is a taboo, but this is nevertheless widely practiced.

    Some of the Himalayan communities have interesting cremation styles, cremating the body upright and placing logs of wood vertically. However this is mostly practiced in the Himachal Himalayas.

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  15. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahuls77 View Post
    Whether they practiced cremation or burial, we may never find out. The problem is given the fact that in Kashmir, as in much of South Asia, graveyards often disappear, with human settlements over them. Although this is a taboo, but this is nevertheless widely practiced.

    Some of the Himalayan communities have interesting cremation styles, cremating the body upright and placing logs of wood vertically. However this is mostly practiced in the Himachal Himalayas.
    Well the grave of Mirza Muhammad Haidar Dughlat, who ruled Kashmir on behalf of Humayun was restored by the Kazakh government in 2018:

    https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscr...ashmir/1239299

    There is apparently a cemetary called Mazar-i-Salatin (Grave/Cemetary of the Sultans) in Srinagar?.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 08-14-2020 at 09:52 AM.

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  17. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpb View Post
    I definitely agree with your statement of how Kashmiri Hinduism has a lot of influence from Naga animism. I always thought it very interesting that Pandits believe when the Saraswat Brahmins came to the Kashmir valley, they had to quickly appease the native Nagas. Apparently this was done by conducting certain rituals such as Khech (or Ketz) Amaavis where we essentially leave food out for the yeti during the dead of winter. Thereís also a belief that the Taranga Kashmiri Battni (women) wear resembles a cobras hood and was done as a tribute to the Nagas (though there are other sources saying Kashmiri dress was very different only a few hundred years ago and was more like those of the Drokpas). I find our ethnogenesis interesting because it seems the Valley has a strong presence of Nagas and given that Kashmiris score more ASI than many Punjabis and other neighbors, it seems to me that the Brahmins fused their culture with the Nagas and obviously the populations mixed heavily. According to kashmiri legends, the Nagas were fierce and a bit scary to the Brahmins lol, and war hardy people. I really hope we get some tests done at Burzahom because it will really shed light on the history of Kashmiris (the people at burzahom are quite tall, I think 5 11 average for the men). I also always found it interesting that Shaivism is generally the strain of Hinduism that is followed in the reaches of the Indian subcontinent (Kashmir, Tamil Nadu, Bengal). Anyway, just thought Iíd give a Kashmiri perspective on the Nagas!

    I have no proof that Nagas are the source of Kashmiris AASI but itís just what I think would make sense. I may very well be wrong
    They should be similar to those from the IVC. In fact some tall skeletal remains were found elsewhere in India as well, likely of a pre-Agrarian people.

    Kashmir was mostly Naga and then Buddhist, under the influence of its rulers, who were often outsiders, and even within Buddhism, which dominated the Valley, the Naga influence was quite strong, and it survived Buddhism and eventually the Karkotas' transition to 'Hinduism' eventually emerging in the form of the now renowned Shaivism in the 9th and 10th centuries. Until then you find no traces of it in the valley.
    The population would have had a predominantly diverse range of lineages, which is what is evident from the y-lineages piece DMXX had shared from a study, and R1a would have come from the South, with Brahmins flocking to the valley, and many native Kashmiri people were also adopted into the Brahmin caste, as such you get to see such a huge y-lineage diversity and a huge number of people with KP surnames. Y-lineage diversity among Brahmins is however quite common across most of Hindi heartland and the Indian Punjab, however not as much as it is in Kashmir. In fact the identity Kashmiri Pandit did not even exist until the early Mughal period, when Emperor Akbar coined this title. And it is in that period, between Zainul Abedin and Akbar that Kashmiri Hinduism mostly developed, and the valley also witnessed much migration of Brahmins from its South.

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