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Thread: Rare Spanish haplogroup L3f1b6 with remote Sub-Saharan origin

  1. #1
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    Rare Spanish haplogroup L3f1b6 with remote Sub-Saharan origin

    Hi,

    Last year I found out that my mitochondrial haplogroup is the rare 100% Spanish L3f1b6.
    * I am of those in this list: http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm
    * And also here at YFull https://yfull.com/mtree/L3f1b6/

    My maternal line comes from the province of Leon (NW Spain) just South Asturias which where most samples have been found till now.

    This haplogroup was established in this 2014 paper (I only have access to the abstract): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22601
    That paper purposes an Ancient (Early Neolithic) Western African origin for this haplogroup, if I have understood it properly.


    Regards
    Last edited by asturvetton; 07-30-2020 at 06:06 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by asturvetton View Post
    Hi,

    Last year I found out that my mitochondrial haplogroup is the rare 100% Spanish L3f1b6.
    * I am of those in this list: http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm
    * And also here at YFull https://yfull.com/mtree/L3f1b6/

    My maternal line comes from the province of Leon (NW Spain) just South Asturias which where most samples have been found till now.

    This haplogroup was established in this 2014 paper (I only have access to the abstract): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22601
    That paper purposes an Ancient (Early Neolithic) Western African origin for this haplogroup, if I have understood it properly.


    Regards
    Hello,

    I replied to JJJ who brought this link to the Spanish forum. There is a 2015 study focused on African mtDNA in Spain. You can find it in my reply below:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post691270

    I have read the study in diagonal but it seems to point to a difference between L3 and the other two L1 and L2.

    L3 does not seem to correlate with the influx of north african population nor the samples coming from towns in Western Andalusia where this haplogroup could be linked to slave trade and they suggest it could have been brought by the offspring of Spanish "indianos" that went to America and mixed there with afroamerican population.

    In this other post I linked a video regarding archeological reserach in Panama where DNA tests have been taken on remains from this period providing some evidence that Spanish cities in America were multicultural and allowed a relative degree of social mobility that also included people of Subsaharan origin, specially women.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post665270

    Professor Javier Rivera in minute 23.20 literally states that the presence of african women buried inside the church clearly indicates they had certain social status.
    Last edited by Shadogowah; 08-04-2020 at 07:35 AM.
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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadogowah View Post
    Hello,

    I replied to JJJ who brought this link to the Spanish forum. There is a 2015 study focused on African mtDNA in Spain. You can find it in my reply below:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post691270

    I have read the study in diagonal but it seems to point to a difference between L3 and the other two L1 and L2.

    L3 does not seem to correlate with the influx of north african population nor the samples coming from towns in Western Andalusia where this haplogroup could be linked to slave trade and they suggest it could have been brought by the offspring of Spanish "indianos" that went to America and mixed there with afroamerican population.

    In this other post I linked a video regarding archeological reserach in Panama where DNA tests have been taken on remains from this period providing some evidence that Spanish cities in America were multicultural and allowed a relative degree of social mobility that also included people of Subsaharan origin, specially women.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post665270

    Professor Javier Rivera in minute 23.20 literally states that the presence of african women buried inside the church clearly indicates they had certain social status.

    Hi,

    Regardless of the evolution of the whole L3 haplogroup, it seems that L3f1b is a Sub-Saharan one and L3f1b6 is a specifically Iberian one of remote Western African origin.
    The discoverers of the clade explained that when they were interviewed by local press from Asturias here

    Besides in this 2018 study about L3 haplogroup it is explained that unexpectedly some L3 Canarian samples were of Iberian origin
    However, unexpectedly, the Canarian sequence TF0005, allocated to the L3f1b subclade, has its closest relatives in the Iberian Peninsula, sharing the 8994 transition with two Asturian L3f1b sequences (KJ959229, KJ959230) [71].
    Finally, this other 2019 study proposes an ancient African migration into Iberia in a remote past (Meolithic to Neolithic times) whose effects would even today be present in modern Iberians. And the existance of L3f1b6 haplogroup seems to be a direct evidence of that:
    One of the strongest pieces of evidence is the existence of mitochondrial haplotypes belonging to the sub-Saharan L macro-haplogroup that form European-specific subclades, suggesting they have evolved locally in Europe [5–7].
    being [7] the paper which established L3f1b6 haplogroup.


    Regards
    Fernando
    Last edited by asturvetton; 08-19-2020 at 10:59 AM.

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by asturvetton View Post
    Hi,

    Last year I found out that my mitochondrial haplogroup is the rare 100% Spanish L3f1b6.
    * I am of those in this list: http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm
    * And also here at YFull https://yfull.com/mtree/L3f1b6/

    My maternal line comes from the province of Leon (NW Spain) just South Asturias which where most samples have been found till now.

    This haplogroup was established in this 2014 paper (I only have access to the abstract): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22601
    That paper purposes an Ancient (Early Neolithic) Western African origin for this haplogroup, if I have understood it properly.


    Regards
    Interesting! My maternal L3 subclade (L3x2b) is also curiously detected in NW-Spain (Asturias, Galacia).

    Nice to see you're also on genebank, were you also contacted by Dr. Logan? He messaged me on 23andme back in 2017 (listed here w/ 23andMe and FTDNA sequence uploads).

    I also considered uploading onto yfull's Mtree but don't feel there'd be much value at the moment:


    (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3x2b/)


    Quote Originally Posted by asturvetton View Post
    Regardless of the evolution of the whole L3 haplogroup, it seems that L3f1b is a Sub-Saharan one and L3f1b6 is a specifically Iberian one of remote Western African origin.
    The discoverers of the clade explained that when they were interviewed by local press from Asturias here


    Neat press article! The "orographic" isolation of NW-Iberia explains why these L3 lineages are peculiarly highly concentrated in the region.

    L3f1b along with most L3 lineages in NW-Africa were bound in East-Africa, then spread across the Sahel and Central/West-Central Africa during the Early-Holocene (Green Sahara) -- so they're not quite "West-African" per se in origin:

    "Haplogroup L3f most likely also arose in Eastern Africa, where it is both most frequent (fig. 3B ) and most diverse (Salas et al. 2002), although several branches were carried by migrants into the Sahel and Central Africa:
    L3f1 has two main subclades (L3f1a and L3f1b) with basal lineages from Eastern Africa; L3f2 is specific to Eastern Africa; and L3f3 seems to have expanded into the Sahel 8–9 ka hypothetically from an Eastern African source (Cernư, Fernandes, et al. 2009),
    as it is also present in Central and North Africa.
    " (P Soares, ‎2012)



    On a slight tangent, evidently samples from my maternal family-members can be modeled on G25 (Unscaled) with minor Mesolithic Iberian-like ancestry -- perhaps this is a relic of Mesolithic trans-Mediterranean migrations :


    Target: UGA_KAKWA2
    Distance: 0.9977% / 0.00997664
    72.8 Sudanese
    16.2 Yoruba
    6.8 Mbuti
    2.0 Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
    0.6 Levant_Natufian
    0.2 GEO_CHG

    Target: UGA_KAKWA3
    Distance: 1.1975% / 0.01197482
    72.0 Sudanese
    15.8 Yoruba
    6.0 Mbuti
    2.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
    2.2 Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.2 Levant_PPNC


    Target: UGA_KAKWA
    Distance: 1.0595% / 0.01059451
    76.2 Sudanese
    12.6 Yoruba
    7.4 Mbuti
    1.6 Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.2 GEO_CHG
    0.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    0.2 IRN_Wezmeh_N
    0.2 Levant_PPNC

    *There currently isn't any available southern Mesolithic Iberian samples, so this "Iberia_Northwest_Meso"-type ancestry could've also been more or less the same as southern Iberian HGs.


    Nilo-Saharan speakers in our region are basically Late Holocene (Green Sahara) migrants from the Lake Chad basin (Central-Sudanic), so this minor Iberian ancestry could've been mediated by NW-African pops (Berbers?) into Sahelian West-Central African pops -- that's my best guess anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angoliga View Post
    Interesting! My maternal L3 subclade (L3x2b) is also curiously detected in NW-Spain (Asturias, Galacia).

    Nice to see you're also on genebank, were you also contacted by Dr. Logan? He messaged me on 23andme back in 2017 (listed here w/ 23andMe and FTDNA sequence uploads).

    I also considered uploading onto yfull's Mtree but don't feel there'd be much value at the moment:


    (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3x2b/)






    Neat press article! The "orographic" isolation of NW-Iberia explains why these L3 lineages are peculiarly highly concentrated in the region.

    L3f1b along with most L3 lineages in NW-Africa were bound in East-Africa, then spread across the Sahel and Central/West-Central Africa during the Early-Holocene (Green Sahara) -- so they're not quite "West-African" per se in origin:

    "Haplogroup L3f most likely also arose in Eastern Africa, where it is both most frequent (fig. 3B ) and most diverse (Salas et al. 2002), although several branches were carried by migrants into the Sahel and Central Africa:
    L3f1 has two main subclades (L3f1a and L3f1b) with basal lineages from Eastern Africa; L3f2 is specific to Eastern Africa; and L3f3 seems to have expanded into the Sahel 8–9 ka hypothetically from an Eastern African source (Cernư, Fernandes, et al. 2009),
    as it is also present in Central and North Africa.
    " (P Soares, ‎2012)



    On a slight tangent, evidently samples from my maternal family-members can be modeled on G25 (Unscaled) with minor Mesolithic Iberian-like ancestry -- perhaps this is a relic of Mesolithic trans-Mediterranean migrations :


    Target: UGA_KAKWA2
    Distance: 0.9977% / 0.00997664
    72.8 Sudanese
    16.2 Yoruba
    6.8 Mbuti
    2.0 Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.4 IRN_Wezmeh_N
    0.6 Levant_Natufian
    0.2 GEO_CHG

    Target: UGA_KAKWA3
    Distance: 1.1975% / 0.01197482
    72.0 Sudanese
    15.8 Yoruba
    6.0 Mbuti
    2.8 IRN_Wezmeh_N
    2.2 Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.2 Levant_PPNC


    Target: UGA_KAKWA
    Distance: 1.0595% / 0.01059451
    76.2 Sudanese
    12.6 Yoruba
    7.4 Mbuti
    1.6 Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.2 GEO_CHG
    0.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    0.2 IRN_Wezmeh_N
    0.2 Levant_PPNC

    *There currently isn't any available southern Mesolithic Iberian samples, so this "Iberia_Northwest_Meso"-type ancestry could've also been more or less the same as southern Iberian HGs.


    Nilo-Saharan speakers in our region are basically Late Holocene (Green Sahara) migrants from the Lake Chad basin (Central-Sudanic), so this minor Iberian ancestry could've been mediated by NW-African pops (Berbers?) into Sahelian West-Central African pops -- that's my best guess anyway.
    2 questions: how did you find that this WHG signal did not come in via a more generic West Eurasian route? I.e. that it combined with other West Eurasian ancestries in that run in a middle eastern composite and came in that way?

    How do you know that Nilo-saharan speakers (specifically Sudanic speakers) come ultimately from Lake Chad?
    Quoted from this Forum:

    "Which superman haplogroup is the toughest - R1a or R1b? And which SNP mutation spoke Indo-European first? There's only one way for us to find out ... fight!"

    " A Basal Eurasian and an Aurignacian walk into a bar... "

    " No, you are in the wrong... I really hope that you are not jumping on my thread with intent to harass me, just like other "receiving comitee", that unites in classic bullying unity, which makes me sad about such people, deprived of love etc.... "

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    2 questions: how did you find that this WHG signal did not come in via a more generic West Eurasian route? I.e. that it combined with other West Eurasian ancestries in that run in a middle eastern composite and came in that way?
    Good question! Without getting too technical/off-topic, here's a few reasons why a more westerly/west-eurasian route might be more favorable vs. SW-Asia ...

    Against a wider-dataset of WHG-related source-samples (*source samples cited below), the signal prefers a more extreme westerly West-Eurasian affinity (Iberian/Atlantic):

    Code:
    Target: UG_KAKWA3
    Distance: 1.0721% / 0.01072054
    72.0	Sudanese
    15.4	Yoruba
    5.6	Mbuti
    2.8	IRN_Wezmeh_N
    1.8	ZAF_2000BP
    1.6	Wales_Meso
    0.8	Levant_PPNC
    
    Target: UG_KAKWA2
    Distance: 0.9241% / 0.00924065
    73.0	Sudanese
    16.0	Yoruba
    6.4	Mbuti
    1.8	Iberia_Northwest_Meso
    1.4	IRN_Wezmeh_N
    1.2	ZAF_2000BP
    0.2	Levant_Natufian
    
    Target: UG_KAKWA
    Distance: 0.9416% / 0.00941578
    76.4	Sudanese
    12.4	Yoruba
    7.2	Mbuti
    1.6	ZAF_2000BP
    1.4	Iberia_Northeast_UP_Azilian
    0.8	GEO_CHG
    0.2	IRN_Wezmeh_N
    
    
    Source samples:
    
    Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636,0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545
    Sudanese:SUDANESE7,-0.0502,0.0046,-0.0019,-0.0023,-0.0017,-0.001,-0.0034,0.0082,0.0442,-0.0598,-0.0114,0.0139,-0.0317,0.0005,0.0097,-0.0179,0.0166,-0.0095,0.0208,-0.0186,-0.0008,0.0039,-0.0008,-0.0014,0.0031
    Mbuti,-0.05688,0.00582,0.00676,0.01158,-0.00036,0.00238,0.15588,-0.12716,0.00866,0.01638,-0.0055,0.14668,0.08506,0.00074,0.00762,-0.00106,0.00072,-0.04094,0.01132,0.00298,0.0049,-0.0015,-0.00356,0.0021,-0.00058
    ZAF_2000BP,-0.0563667,0.0055,0.0068667,0.0108,4e-04,-0.0011,0.1140667,-0.0898,0.0051,0.0084333,0.0053667,-0.0440333,-0.0145333,0.0046667,0.0175,-0.0152,0.0262333,0.2325333,-0.0761667,0.0048333,-0.0271333,-0.0031667,0.0025667,-0.0024333,-0.0003333
    IRN_Wezmeh_N,0.0033,0.0071,-0.0439,-0.0051,-0.0382,0.0054,0.0076,-0.0014,-0.035,-0.0257,0.0019,-0.0021,0.0045,5e-04,0.0163,0.04,-0.009,8e-04,0.0116,-0.0282,0.0075,-0.0192,-0.0054,-0.0273,0.0167
    IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.00378,0.00654,-0.04112,0.00146,-0.03986,0.00844,0.00728,-0.00052,-0.04036,-0.02986,-0.00174,-0.00108,0.00302,-0.00456,0.02332,0.04234,-0.00416,0.00542,0.01086,-0.02672,0.00686,-0.02332,-0.00898,-0.03264,0.01856
    GEO_CHG,0.008,0.0101,-0.0221,-0.001,-0.028,0.0074,0.0106,-8e-04,-0.0627,-0.041,-0.0039,0.016,-0.0369,0.0032,0.0196,-0.0247,0.0183,-0.0106,-0.0177,0.0278,0.0271,-0.0057,0.0053,-0.0214,-0.0017
    MAR_Taforalt,-0.01668,0.00802,-0.00644,-0.0265,0.00898,-0.0198,-0.03004,0.00798,0.07598,0.00192,0.01288,-0.02124,0.05026,-0.0373,0.05246,-0.02738,0.00404,-0.05218,-0.1133,0.03118,-0.0302,-0.10152,0.05924,-0.01142,0.01374
    Levant_Natufian,0.0018,0.0141,-0.01,-0.04295,0.01,-0.0285,-0.0109,-0.0076,0.0559,0.0011,0.02045,-0.01485,0.05145,0.00155,0.0113,0.0068,-0.01185,-8e-04,-0.01755,0.03265,0.0012,1e-04,-0.00295,-0.0037,0.00525
    Levant_PPNC,0.0059,0.0166,-0.0061,-0.0467,0.0093,-0.0258,-0.0059,-0.0078,0.038,0.0208,0.004,-0.0088,0.022,-2e-04,-0.011,0.0064,-7e-04,-0.0061,-0.0108,0.0099,-0.008,0.0082,0.0024,0.0025,-0.0016
    Yamnaya_UKR,0.0105,0.0086,0.012,0.03425,-0.0092,0.01525,0.0036,-0.0015,-0.0255,-0.03885,0.00015,0.00295,-0.0029,-0.0147,0.0238,0.0081,-2e-04,-0.0091,-0.0044,0.0019,-0.00225,0.00035,-0.0076,0.016,0.0026
    CHN_Tianyuan,-0.0024,-0.0257,-0.02,0.0221,0.0109,-0.0066,-0.0034,-0.0013,0.0197,0.0117,-0.0039,-0.004,-0.0024,-0.0038,-3e-04,-5e-04,0.0062,0.0019,-9e-04,0.0218,-0.0014,0.0065,-0.0072,-0.009,0.0094
    TUR_Barcin_N,0.0103318,0.0177364,0.0009364,-0.0313182,0.0165864,-0.01735,-0.0018545,-0.0030045,0.0177136,0.0443091,0.0049091,0.0079273,-0.0157773,0.0003409,-0.0309318,-0.0076864,0.0178773,0.0015682,0.0108955,-0.0077955,-0.0114,0.0046682,-0.0033455,-0.0026273,-0.0036273
    England_Mesolithic:I6767,0.0111,0.0109,0.0538,0.061,0.0513,0.02,0.0045,0.0145,0.0423,0.0091,-0.011,-0.0076,0.01,-0.0012,0.0453,0.0494,0.0019,0.0078,-0.0044,0.0508,0.0932,0.0159,-0.0454,-0.1491,0.0162
    Wales_Meso:I6754,0.01,0.0115,0.0495,0.0601,0.0528,0.0231,0.0107,0.0138,0.0443,0.0054,-0.0119,-0.0059,0.0022,-0.0011,0.046,0.0497,0.0004,0.0083,-0.0016,0.0463,0.0849,0.0139,-0.0371,-0.1446,0.016
    Wales_Meso:SB460A3_lib,0.0104,0.0113,0.0501,0.0609,0.0531,0.023,0.01,0.0128,0.0452,0.0056,-0.0128,-0.0021,0.0045,-0.0012,0.0448,0.0478,-0.002,0.0077,-0.0054,0.0491,0.0845,0.0158,-0.0397,-0.1465,0.0137
    Iberia_Northeast_UP_Azilian:BAL051,0.0089,0.0075,0.0384,0.0507,0.0444,0.0151,0.001,0.0141,0.044,0.0161,-0.0078,-0.0066,-0.0009,-0.0121,0.0353,0.0378,0.0001,0.0051,-0.0071,0.0468,0.074,0.012,-0.043,-0.1312,0.0101
    Iberia_Northwest_Meso:Canes,0.0108,0.01,0.0437,0.0542,0.0423,0.0192,0.0086,0.0135,0.0388,0.0009,-0.0056,-0.0102,0.016,-0.0003,0.0363,0.0304,-0.0116,0.0073,-0.0097,0.0395,0.0701,0.0059,-0.0348,-0.1198,0.0131
    Iberia_Northwest_Meso:Chan,0.0081,0.0055,0.0329,0.0475,0.0409,0.0151,0.003,0.0122,0.0449,0.0161,-0.0041,-0.0053,0.0072,-0.0124,0.041,0.0366,0.0012,0.0065,-0.0129,0.0489,0.0766,0.0126,-0.041,-0.1362,0.018
    Iberia_Southeast_Meso:I10899,0.0086,0.0059,0.0303,0.0453,0.0367,0.0109,0.0023,0.0075,0.0436,0.0136,-0.0046,-0.008,0.0059,-0.0079,0.0279,0.0341,0.0017,0.0097,-0.0065,0.0416,0.0679,0.0111,-0.0371,-0.1221,0.0162
    Iberia_ElMiron:ElMiron,0.0068,0.0044,0.0279,0.04,0.036,0.0112,0.0008,0.0027,0.0433,0.0134,-0.0033,-0.0019,0.0058,-0.0098,0.0276,0.0314,0.0017,0.0055,-0.0121,0.0366,0.051,0.0064,-0.0296,-0.1071,0.0109
    ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR11,0.0101,0.0108,0.0525,0.0634,0.0549,0.0224,0.0077,0.0176,0.0517,0.0169,-0.0116,-0.0085,0.0107,-0.007,0.0544,0.0525,0.0058,0.0116,-0.0114,0.0459,0.0913,0.0078,-0.0523,-0.1614,0.0185
    ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR15,0.0111,0.0111,0.0541,0.0647,0.057,0.0226,0.0063,0.02,0.0556,0.0135,-0.0118,-0.0111,0.0139,-0.0015,0.0493,0.0511,-0.0037,0.0064,-0.0056,0.054,0.0968,0.012,-0.0477,-0.167,0.015
    ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR7,0.0111,0.0112,0.0532,0.0622,0.0566,0.0215,0.0065,0.016,0.052,0.0143,-0.0123,-0.0091,0.0081,-0.0104,0.0528,0.0526,-0.0016,0.0105,-0.0067,0.0531,0.0956,0.0077,-0.0482,-0.1625,0.0216
    ITA_Villabruna:Villabruna,0.0107,0.0113,0.0493,0.057,0.0508,0.0218,0.0086,0.0156,0.0452,0.0099,-0.01,-0.0108,0.0114,-0.0073,0.0398,0.0508,0.0006,0.0043,-0.0067,0.0428,0.0802,0.0087,-0.0392,-0.1357,0.0161
    LUX_Loschbour:I0001,0.0117,0.0105,0.0535,0.0595,0.0534,0.02,0.0026,0.016,0.0472,0.0125,-0.0128,-0.0108,0.0168,-0.0054,0.0485,0.048,0.0062,0.0053,-0.0106,0.0522,0.0962,0.0155,-0.0482,-0.1458,0.0192
    DEU_Meso_BDB:BDB001.merged,0.011,0.0111,0.0515,0.0626,0.0509,0.0183,0.0099,0.017,0.0444,0.0019,-0.0102,-0.0114,0.018,0.0045,0.0385,0.0472,-0.0052,0.0106,0.0002,0.0425,0.0801,0.0111,-0.0374,-0.1334,0.0194
    DEU_Meso_TGM:TGM009.A0101,0.0118,0.0139,0.0413,0.0378,0.0413,0.0118,0.0054,0.0068,0.0324,0.0118,-0.0069,-0.0079,0.007,-0.0015,0.0184,0.0315,0.009,0.0089,-0.0006,0.0287,0.0621,0.0123,-0.0265,-0.0871,0.0102
    ROU_Meso:I2534,0.0118,0.0109,0.0447,0.0521,0.0292,0.023,0.0046,0.0069,0.0227,-0.0185,0.0016,-0.0131,0.017,-0.0029,0.0195,0.018,-0.0051,0.005,-0.0069,0.0283,0.0418,0.0082,-0.0109,-0.0748,0.0101
    WHG:I1875,0.0115,0.0119,0.0508,0.0602,0.0517,0.0173,0.0067,0.0174,0.0427,0.0041,-0.0099,-0.0103,0.012,-0.0024,0.0353,0.0355,0.0056,0.0146,-0.0026,0.0456,0.0701,0.0074,-0.0393,-0.1188,0.0121
    WHG:Rochedane,0.0104,0.011,0.0472,0.057,0.0488,0.016,0.0045,0.0149,0.0444,0.0154,-0.009,-0.0108,0.0094,-0.002,0.0433,0.0523,0.0021,0.0112,-0.0122,0.0433,0.0813,0.0107,-0.0412,-0.1482,0.0163
    HUN_Koros_N_HG,0.0121,0.0123,0.0478,0.0478,0.0417,0.0151,0.0064,0.0158,0.0352,0.0038,-0.0032,-0.009,0.0099,-0.0024,0.0211,0.0348,0.0141,0.0047,-0.0066,0.0366,0.049,0.0086,-0.033,-0.1033,0.0109
    
    
    
    
    Target Samples:
    
    UG_KAKWA,-0.0516,0.0051,-0.0005,-0.0005,0.0013,-0.0015,0.0072,-0.0047,0.03,-0.0418,-0.0108,0.0195,-0.0188,0.0002,0.0101,-0.0164,0.0087,-0.0074,0.0138,-0.0165,0.0021,0.0046,-0.0024,-0.0045,0.0031
    UG_KAKWA2,-0.0521,0.005,-0.0005,-0.0006,-0.0004,0.0005,0.0056,-0.0005,0.0286,-0.041,-0.009,0.0198,-0.016,-0.0022,0.008,-0.0137,0.0065,-0.0056,0.0146,-0.0123,0.003,0.0042,-0.0025,-0.0036,0.0052
    UG_KAKWA3,-0.0521,0.0052,-0.0005,-0.0005,-0.0004,-0.0002,0.0057,-0.0019,0.0276,-0.0402,-0.0105,0.0154,-0.017,0.0009,0.0074,-0.0113,0.0063,-0.0058,0.0148,-0.0144,-0.0005,0.0061,-0.0021,-0.0069,0.0009
    Moreover, if this minor WHG-affinity came via a SW-Asian route, it would've already been embedded within the ancestry of the more north/easterly shifted "Sudanese" source sample, rendering the WHG affinity negligible in these Central-Sudanic influenced NW-Ugandan samples.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    How do you know that Nilo-saharan speakers (specifically Sudanic speakers) come ultimately from Lake Chad?
    With the limited data we have atm, it would be misleading to affirm to "know" the ultimate neolithic origin of the bulk of their ancestry matter-of-factly.

    A good guess though based on their ancestral-composition and hydraulic constraints of the Neolithic Subpluvial (Green Sahara) would favour a region within and around the holocenic Lake (Mega) Chad basin.

    As their name implies, the Central-"Sudanic" region, not to be confounded with the modern country Sudan, would be a best-guess imho i.e. a central-sahelian region more westerly shifted than the Ancestral-East-African rich middle-Nile basin.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Angoliga For This Useful Post:

     asturvetton (12-26-2020),  Ryukendo (11-10-2020),  ThaYamamoto (11-11-2020)

  13. #7
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    Nice to see you're also on genebank, were you also contacted by Dr. Logan?
    Yes, as I wrote in my original post, my sample can be seen listed here (the FTDNA one)

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     ThaYamamoto (12-31-2020)

  15. #8
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    @Angoliga you haplogroup is quite interesing too

    There are many studies on mitochondrial haplogrpups that seem to point to an ancient contact between Iberia and Africa as a source of several Iberian clades.

    Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages of macro-haplogroup L (excluding the derived L3 branches M and N) represent the majority of the typical sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. In Europe, these mtDNAs account for <1% of the total but, when analyzed at the level of control region, they show no signals of having evolved within the European continent, an observation that is compatible with a recent arrival from the African continent. To further evaluate this issue, we analyzed 69 mitochondrial genomes belonging to various L sublineages from a wide range of European populations. Phylogeographic analyses showed that ∼65% of the European L lineages most likely arrived in rather recent historical times, including the Romanization period, the Arab conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, and during the period of the Atlantic slave trade. However, the remaining 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.
    Source: https://genome.cshlp.org/content/22/...Q0kDaq9kX0-56E

    Regarding my fully Iberian sub-clade L3f1b6 Wikipedia entry about L3 haplogroup claims:
    There is at least one relatively deep non-M, non-N clade of L3 outside Africa, L3f1b6, which is found at a frequency of 1% in Asturias, Spain. It diverged from African L3 lineages at least 10,000 years ago.[14]

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