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Thread: Who were the Awan tribe? Need help with report

  1. #21
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    Where can I find G25? Sorry guys, idk what that is. It's not on GEDmatch is it?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdufh View Post
    Where can I find G25? Sorry guys, idk what that is. It's not on GEDmatch is it?
    David coverts your genetics into coordinates. We can take those coordinates and do admixture analysis. He takes $12 on Paypal.

    [email protected]

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    David coverts your genetics into coordinates. We can take those coordinates and do admixture analysis. He takes $12 on Paypal.

    [email protected]
    For us Canucks, it costs around $22. But worth every penny. CERB money should come in handy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    For us Canucks, it costs around $22. But worth every penny. CERB money should come in handy.
    Not on CERB :'(

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdufh View Post
    Not on CERB :'(
    Press F to pay respects.

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  10. #26
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    are you from hindko / kpk border area?

    my awan friend score similar but with 14 caucasian ( he is also originally from that punjab/ kpk border area but now his family migrated to faisalabad punjab side )

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  12. #27
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    Just chiming in with my assessment of the Awans. My grandmother is a 'Qutb Shahi Awan' and boyyy is she proud of it. So, because of this, I grew up hearing the legends of their origins and their accomplishments etc. @ jdufh do you happen to know which branch of the Awans you belong to? From what I'm told there are up to twelve, and then there are separate Jatt/Rajput tribes which also claim an Awan origin e.g. some Khokars of the Salt Range.

    I can't give you an expert assessment of the genetic picture, unfortunately; but I share the opinion of other more learned users here that your caucasian is on the higher side as compared with the Awan results we have seen so far. By comparison, I have tested some of my maternal family members and (although they are mixed) their caucasian doesn't exceed 14/15. Regionally, where do your parents originate? I know some Peshawari and Nowshera Awans who, despite having a Punjabi origin, have lived in the frontier since colonial times. They now speak Pashto and identify as Pathans (some even go by the name 'Awanzai') so I do wonder whether the source of your higher caucasian could be a non-Awan ancestor from the frontier/KPK, whether Pashtun or otherwise.

    In terms of the genealogical tree of the Awans, there are multiple legends, but the nub of it is this. The Awans say they had an Iraqi ancestor - 'Qutb Shah' - who hailed from Baghdad and was a lineal descendant of either Muhammad Al Hanafiyya or Abbas ibn Ali: both sons of Hazrat Ali through a wife other than Bibi Fatima. Some accounts make Qutb Shah the viceregent of Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani, accounting for the Awans' predominant association with Qadri Sufism in Pakistan. According to Awan traditions, Qutb Shah was made the governor of Herat or Ghazni in Afghanistan and later entered the subcontinent as part of an Afghan/Turkic expedition. Eventually he and his seven sons settled in the Salt Range, taking local Rajput women as wives, and over the generations gaining repute as an influential zamindar clan.

    In my opinion, this is almost certainly just a legend. The Awan samples we have seen exemplify a haplogroup diversity (I've seen predominantly J2 and R1a) and, autosomally, they resemble their regional neighbours. So, for example, my grandmother and her brother are indistinguishable from their Potohari cousin communities, like Ghakkars, Janjuas or Khokars. Although that technically does not rule out the possibility of a foreign ancestor (if, as is claimed, it is true that they had a single foreign ancestor and have been intermarrying with locals for centuries), but I don't personally think there's much truth to the Awan claim to Iraqi Arab and much less 'Alid or Alvi descent.

    So that leaves the question: who exactly are the Awan? There are numerous theories, including that they are converted Rajputs or Jatts. Their kinship with other clans, like the Ghebas of PindiGheb, may lend credence to this theory. I personally think that they are a local Salt Range tribe who perhaps converted at the hands of an early Sufi Saint (perhaps the eponymous Qutb Shah, although there is no evidence of any such person having lived or, much less, having settled in Punjab). The Awans have been historically important, and were at times embroiled in lengthy conflicts with the Tiwanas to the south and the Janjuas in their own areas. British accounts describe the Awans as yeomanry, whereas the Ghakkars and Janjuas were the gentry. From what I understand, the Awans' social fortunes changed when the British struck a deal with them: many Awans were agitating against British rule and causing trouble in the NW Punjab. And so the British attended an Awan jirga/panchayat and agreed that, in order to deal with the rowdiness, they would recruit Awans into the British army. Thus began the Awan tradition - which persists to this day - of military service. Even in contemporary Pakistan, many rural Awan families see military service as the ideal career.

    I hope that helps, but you can DM me if you would like to discuss further.

    And, as I said, others will be able to give you a more accurate assessment of your own, particular Harappa and G25 results.
    Last edited by Ahmed Ali; 08-01-2020 at 09:48 AM.

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Just chiming in with my assessment of the Awans. My grandmother is a 'Qutb Shahi Awan' and boyyy is she proud of it. So, because of this, I grew up hearing the legends of their origins and their accomplishments etc. @ jdufh do you happen to know which branch of the Awans you belong to? From what I'm told there are up to twelve, and then there are separate Jatt/Rajput tribes which also claim an Awan origin e.g. some Khokars of the Salt Range.

    I can't give you an expert assessment of the genetic picture, unfortunately; but I share the opinion of other more learned users here that your caucasian is on the higher side as compared with the Awan results we have seen so far. By comparison, I have tested some of my maternal family members and (although they are mixed) their caucasian doesn't exceed 14/15. Regionally, where do your parents originate? I know some Peshawari and Nowshera Awans who, despite having a Punjabi origin, have lived in the frontier since colonial times. They now speak Pashto and identify as Pathans (some even go by the name 'Awanzai') so I do wonder whether the source of your higher caucasian could be a non-Awan ancestor from the frontier/KPK, whether Pashtun or otherwise.

    In terms of the genealogical tree of the Awans, there are multiple legends, but the nub of it is this. The Awans say they had an Iraqi ancestor - 'Qutb Shah' - who hailed from Baghdad and was a lineal descendant of either Muhammad Al Hanafiyya or Abbas ibn Ali: both sons of Hazrat Ali through a wife other than Bibi Fatima. Some accounts make Qutb Shah the viceregent of Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani, accounting for the Awans' predominant association with Qadri Sufism in Pakistan. According to Awan traditions, Qutb Shah was made the governor of Herat or Ghazni in Afghanistan and later entered the subcontinent as part of an Afghan/Turkic expedition. Eventually he and his seven sons settled in the Salt Range, taking local Rajput women as wives, and over the generations gaining repute as an influential zamindar clan.

    In my opinion, this is almost certainly just a legend. The Awan samples we have seen exemplify a haplogroup diversity (I've seen predominantly J2 and R1a) and, autosomally, they resemble their regional neighbours. So, for example, my grandmother and her brother are indistinguishable from their Potohari cousin communities, like Ghakkars, Janjuas or Khokars. Although that technically does not rule out the possibility of a foreign ancestor (if, as is claimed, it is true that they had a single foreign ancestor and have been intermarrying with locals for centuries), but I don't personally think there's much truth to the Awan claim to Iraqi Arab and much less 'Alid or Alvi descent.

    So that leaves the question: who exactly are the Awan? There are numerous theories, including that they are converted Rajputs or Jatts. Their kinship with other clans, like the Ghebas of PindiGheb, may lend credence to this theory. I personally think that they are a local Salt Range tribe who perhaps converted at the hands of an early Sufi Saint (perhaps the eponymous Qutb Shah, although there is no evidence of any such person having lived or, much less, having settled in Punjab). The Awans have been historically important, and were at times embroiled in lengthy conflicts with the Tiwanas to the south and the Janjuas in their own areas. British accounts describe the Awans as yeomanry, whereas the Ghakkars and Janjuas were the gentry. From what I understand, the Awans' social fortunes changed when the British struck a deal with them: many Awans were agitating against British rule and causing trouble in the NW Punjab. And so the British attended an Awan jirga/panchayat and agreed that, in order to deal with the rowdiness, they would recruit Awans into the British army. Thus began the Awan tradition - which persists to this day - of military service. Even in contemporary Pakistan, many rural Awan families see military service as the ideal career.

    I hope that helps, but you can DM me if you would like to discuss further.

    And, as I said, others will be able to give you a more accurate assessment of your own, particular Harappa and G25 results.
    The OP is from south of Potohar, in Chakwal. I have two Awan matches of my own on FTDNA. Awans are settled in Kahuta and the Pakistani-Administered Kashmir as well.
    Captain Safdar, MNS' son-in-law also claims to be an Awan, however I was told by a friend that his father had changed his caste affiliation from Merasi to Awan.

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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdufh View Post
    About an hour from Chakwal so pretty far away
    Makes you a neighbour of Amber29, who is also from Chakwal.

    Now I am curious, where exactly in Chakwal is your ancestral home?

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  18. #30
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    op is from chakwal , then its really quite interesting results. maybe unusal mtdna can also explain atypical results

    My analysis is , these tribes who claim foreign origin with foreign name are mostly locals but their have been some genuine muslim sufi preacher influence and warriors and converted by em or some families mixed by em and then whole clan star claiming origin by influenced personalities


    Abbasi also claim some arab abbasi sufi ancestry but are actually local and they were known as Dhund before converting to Islam


    khokhar also have a qutb shahi section like awan


    gakhar write kiyani ( a iranian surname) and also claim some sort of persian ancestry


    i fear same is case with tribes like sudhan


    sudhan = Jassi Khan sadozai quite recent during durrani empire


    claim origin from sadozai pashtun tribe


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadozai
    Last edited by gudar; 08-01-2020 at 01:06 PM.

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