Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 109

Thread: Graeco-Bactrians, Indo-Greeks, Seleucids et. al.

  1. #31
    Registered Users
    Posts
    770
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M241
    mtDNA (P)
    M5a2a

    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    South Asian E is closest to West Asian E then?
    This study however tested only for M78, and not V13, the typical type of M78 from the Balkans. More recent and detailed analyses of E-V13 in this region have however concluded that this hypothesis is incorrect, and that the variants found there are not the types typical of the Balkans.[42] Instead "Afghanistan's lineages are correlated with Middle Easterners and Iranians but not with populations from the Balkans"[43]
    Could be, however, if and when those samples are uploaded to Yfull might make it clear, If they are minor lineages of E found among Greek or typical E lineages of Middle Easterners and Iranians.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplog...rs_in_Pakistan

  2. #32
    Registered Users
    Posts
    61
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    The Indo-Greeks under Menander Soter did briefly campaign as far east as Pataliputra (modern day Patna) but didn't leave a lasting presence there.



    However Mathura was occupied by Menander I Soter for some time according to the Hathigumpha inscription:





    INDO-GREEK.BAKTRIA.Menander I Soter circa 155-130 BC.AR.Drachma. ( 2.45g, 16.2mm, 12h )

    Obverse:BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΣΩΤHPOΣ MENANΔIOY/BASILEUS SOTEROS MENANDER/KING MENANDER THE SAVIOUR, diademed heroic bust of Menander I Soter left seen from behind; wearing aegis and brandishing spear
    Reverse:Kharosthi legend, Athena Alkidemos (Athena, Defender of the People) walking left brandishing spear in raised right hand and holding shield in left, monogram left field.
    Ref:SNG Cop 299-300

    I disagree with the map presented in your post in the sense that the indo greek kingdom included parts of current day India. There are 100's of such imaginary maps for instance the two below rejects what you have presented.





    I stand my ground that the Greeks never made it to current day India. They and their leftovers were stationed in what is Pakistan and Afghanistan today.

  3. #33
    Registered Users
    Posts
    829
    Sex
    Location
    London, UK
    Ethnicity
    Bihari, UPite and Bengali
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    O2a1c-JST002611
    mtDNA (M)
    M6a1a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1a-Z93, R-M560

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Shujauddin View Post
    I disagree with the map presented in your post in the sense that the indo greek kingdom included parts of current day India. There are 100's of such imaginary maps for instance the two below rejects what you have presented.





    I stand my ground that the Greeks never made it to current day India. They and their leftovers were stationed in what is Pakistan and Afghanistan today.
    From Strabo:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Greek
    ταῦτ᾽ οὖν ἐγένετο γνώριμα ἡμῖν τῶν ἑωθινῶν τῆς Ἰνδικῆς μερῶν, ὅσα ἐντὸς τοῦ Ὑπάνιος, καὶ εἴ τινα προσιστόρησαν οἱ μετ᾽ ἐκεῖνον περαιτέρω τοῦ Ὑπάνιος προελθόντες μέχρι τοῦ Γάγγου καὶ Παλιβόθρων.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3Asection%3D27

    Quote Originally Posted by English translation
    Next to the Cophes was the Indus, then the Hydaspes, the Acesines, the Hyarotis, and last, the Hypanis. He was prevented from proceeding farther, partly from regard to some oracles, and partly compelled by his army, which was exhausted by toil and fatigue, but whose principal distress arose from their constant exposure to rain. Hence we became acquainted with the eastern parts of India on this side the Hypanis, and whatever parts besides which have been described by those who, after Alexander, advanced beyond the Hypanis to the Ganges and Palibothra.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=15:chapter =1

    Palibothra (Παλιβόθρα) was the Greek name for Pataliputra which was also mentioned by Arrian and Megasthenes
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 06-16-2021 at 08:17 PM.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to deuterium_1 For This Useful Post:

     FrostAssassin0701 (06-17-2021),  Rahuls77 (06-16-2021)

  5. #34
    Registered Users
    Posts
    61
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    From Strabo:



    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3Asection%3D27



    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=15:chapter =1

    Palibothra (Παλιβόθρα) was the Greek name for Pataliputra which was also mentioned by Arrian and Megasthenes
    So this certifies what i said " that the greeks never made it to eastern india i.e. Pataluputra. After the battle of Hydaspes, he decided to return to west.

  6. #35
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    8,350

    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Tushaspa was not during Rudraman time, but during the time of Ashoka. Rudraman inscription is recollecting an event that happened during Ashoka time.

    Ashoka himself transliterated his name in different languages.
    The 120 CE I was referring to was from the material you had quoted: "In the Great Chaitya of the Karla Caves built and dedicated by Western Satraps Nahapana in 120 CE,[20] there are six inscriptions made by self-described Yavana donors, who donated six of the pillars, although their names are Buddhist names.[21] They account for nearly half of the known dedicatory inscriptions on the pillars of the Chaitya.[22]"

    My contention was that these Yavan could be any Indo-Greek, Parsi, or any foreigner. As you note even in Rudradam's timeframe, he is mentioning an Asok period official Tushasp (a clear Parsi name) as a Yavan.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     Kapisa (06-17-2021),  tipirneni (06-17-2021)

  8. #36
    Registered Users
    Posts
    829
    Sex
    Location
    London, UK
    Ethnicity
    Bihari, UPite and Bengali
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    O2a1c-JST002611
    mtDNA (M)
    M6a1a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1a-Z93, R-M560

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Shujauddin View Post
    So this certifies what i said " that the greeks never made it to eastern india i.e. Pataluputra. After the battle of Hydaspes, he decided to return to west.
    Corroboration for the penetration of a group of Yavanas to Saketa is
    provided by Patanjali, who in this commentary on Panini's Grammar
    gives at one point a grammatical example arunad yavanah saketamjarunad
    yavano madhyamikdm, "the Yavana was besieging Saketa, the Yavana
    was besieging Madhyamika."
    https://archive.org/stream/TheYugaPu...urana_djvu.txt

    Saketa is present day Ayodhya in Uttar Pradesh, India which would have been pretty far east too. It was an important regional centre and a source of coinage in Eastern UP and Western Bihar as attested by the Laghusa hoard in Saran.

    "Then in the eighth year, (Kharavela) with a large army having sacked Goradhagiri causes pressure on Rajagaha (Rajagriha). On account of the loud report of this act of valour, the Yavana (Greek) King [ta] retreated to Mathura having extricated his demoralized army."

    — Hathigumpha inscription, lines 7-8, probably in the 1st century BCE-1st century CE.
    Rajagaha is present day Rajgir which is in Nalanda district, south-east of Patna in Bihar. It was the first capital of Magadha during the Mahajanapada era:

    Last edited by deuterium_1; 06-17-2021 at 07:15 AM.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to deuterium_1 For This Useful Post:

     solarius (06-19-2021)

  10. #37
    Registered Users
    Posts
    770
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M241
    mtDNA (P)
    M5a2a

    We have noticed certian users either show trace amounts of SSA in DNA testing providers results and/or couple of calculators including G25.

    From Narasimhan study,


    'Seven additional groups were excluded because of evidence of African admixture based on a significant symmetry test statistic f4(Mbuti, Karitiana; Palliyar, X),which evaluates whether a test population X shares ancestry with Mbuti from Central Africa. African admixture occurring within the last thousand years is likely to be a confounder for studies of population history in South Asia in the Bronze Age and Iron Age.

    Here we show the Z-scores for the test statistic for these seven populations:

    (11) Kamboj-5.1
    (12) Muslim_Karnataka-4.1
    (13) Gujjar-4.0
    (14) Sindhi_Pakistan-3.9
    (15) Scheduled_caste_TN-3.6
    (16) Muthuliar-3.1
    (17) Dawoodi-2.9'

    This indicates it is real, African admixture seems to be present in both North and South, could be in some communities in central and East India as well,

    Considering it was it is in trace amounts, it was likely facilitated by some group who carried it in trace/very small amounts and had presence across South Asia or movement of people of a region, who received from the said group.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...asimhan_SM.pdf

    Possibility of Greeks should also be considered

    We find

    f3(Greece; Albania,YRI) = - 0047 Z = -5.8

    [YRI are HapMap Yoruba Nigerians (International Hapmap3 Consortium 2010).] Sub-Saharan populations (includingHGDP San) all give aZ,24.0 when paired with Albania,and evenf3(Greece; Albania, Papuan) =20.0033(Z=23.5). There may be a low level of sub-Saharan ancestry in our Greek samples, contributing to our signal, butt he consistent pattern of highly significantf3-statistics sug-gests that we are primarily seeing an outgroup case.
    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...e_Genetics.pdf

    But not Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Other proposed migrations, such as settlement by Egyptian or Phoenician colonists22, are not discernible in our data, as there is no measurable Levantine or African influence in the Minoans and Mycenaeans, thus rejecting the hypothesis that the cultures of the Aegean were seeded by migrants from the old civilizations of these regions.
    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...ature23310.pdf

    Anyway, if it is some of Greeks, somebody else require further investigation.

  11. #38
    Registered Users
    Posts
    433
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    We have noticed certian users either show trace amounts of SSA in DNA testing providers results and/or couple of calculators including G25.

    From Narasimhan study,


    'Seven additional groups were excluded because of evidence of African admixture based on a significant symmetry test statistic f4(Mbuti, Karitiana; Palliyar, X),which evaluates whether a test population X shares ancestry with Mbuti from Central Africa. African admixture occurring within the last thousand years is likely to be a confounder for studies of population history in South Asia in the Bronze Age and Iron Age.

    Here we show the Z-scores for the test statistic for these seven populations:

    (11) Kamboj-5.1
    (12) Muslim_Karnataka-4.1
    (13) Gujjar-4.0
    (14) Sindhi_Pakistan-3.9
    (15) Scheduled_caste_TN-3.6
    (16) Muthuliar-3.1
    (17) Dawoodi-2.9'

    This indicates it is real, African admixture seems to be present in both North and South, could be in some communities in central and East India as well,

    Considering it was it is in trace amounts, it was likely facilitated by some group who carried it in trace/very small amounts and had presence across South Asia or movement of people of a region, who received from the said group.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...asimhan_SM.pdf

    Possibility of Greeks should also be considered



    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...e_Genetics.pdf

    But not Minoans and Mycenaeans



    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...ature23310.pdf

    Anyway, if it is some of Greeks, somebody else require further investigation.
    I definitely do show traces of SSA DNA. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
    "

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Azbuzz For This Useful Post:

     discreetmaverick (06-17-2021)

  13. #39
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,729
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    Arabsiyo,Somaliland
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V32>E-FT385910
    mtDNA (M)
    L0a1d1*
    Y-DNA (M)
    T-FGC92488

    Somaliland Adal Sultanate Yemen African Union Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Considering it was it is in trace amounts, it was likely facilitated by some group who carried it in trace/very small amounts and had presence across South Asia or movement of people of a region, who received from the said group.

    Possibility of Greeks should also be considered

    Anyway, if it is some of Greeks, somebody else require further investigation.
    Aren't there Siddis all over South Asia? It's almost impossible for ancient Greeks who did not carry any SSA ancestry to be responsible for spreading African ancestry in South Asia.
    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to drobbah For This Useful Post:

     pegasus (06-17-2021)

  15. #40
    Registered Users
    Posts
    770
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-M241
    mtDNA (P)
    M5a2a

    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Aren't there Siddis all over South Asia? It's almost impossible for ancient Greeks who did not carry any SSA ancestry to be responsible for spreading African ancestry in South Asia.
    No, they are a small community limited to few cities on west coast, It found in places who have no contact with them. There is no way Siddi could have spread it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddi

    Here Greeks score trace amounts of SSA what SA's score as well, when did African ancestry reach them?

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post741820
    Last edited by discreetmaverick; 06-17-2021 at 09:53 PM.

Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Greeks are 1/4 of the Slavs?
    By Cracow in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: 06-03-2021, 01:17 PM
  2. Are Pontic Greeks just hellenized Laz?
    By bunalim in forum General
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 09-11-2020, 09:05 PM
  3. are Kalash Indo Aryan or Proto Indo Aryan?
    By akash in forum Southern
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-26-2020, 06:08 PM
  4. Replies: 129
    Last Post: 09-25-2018, 01:10 PM
  5. Greeks with Slavic Ancestry and Without
    By firemonkey in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-15-2015, 07:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •